Going Home

Speaker A: 00:00:00

Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering podcast produced by me, Fraser McGruer, for Aleph Insights. In this series of podcasts, we take a look at interesting topics and discuss what we think they tell us about analysis and decision making. I'm here with Nick Hare and Peter Coghill of Aleph Insights, and this week we're discussing going home. Nick, when did you

Speaker B: 00:00:29

c Crusade against Novgorod in: 1240

Speaker A: 00:03:09

And so off we go. This is great. By the way, isn't it ironic, though, that your homeland, you don't know how to pronounce the station at which you arrived correctly?

Speaker B: 00:03:21

Malibu. Yeah. Are you one of these provincials who calls it Marylebone? Marylebone. What would you call it, Peter? I'm not going to. Uncontroversially, Malibu, only people from outside London call it Marylebone. That's such a London-centric thing. No, it's like, look, and this is no slight, by the way, on Americans, but Americans often pronounce Leicester Square as Leicester or Leichester Square. You can tell that they're not from the UK if they say that. And you can tell someone isn't from London if they call Marylebone. It's just because it's spelt like that. That's not how it's pronounced.

Speaker A: 00:03:56

Which is a fair point. Just because something is spelt that way doesn't need to be, doesn't necessarily pronounce like that. Where are you from? Marylebone. No, you're not. Born and bred.

Speaker B: 00:04:04

You're from, you're actually from the countryside, aren't you? Where's my home, right? Well, right, maybe. So let's go into this. Well, no, because your home, actually, is it, yeah, this question of, is it where you grew up? Because a lot of people will say, oh, I'm going home for the weekend. I mean, they're going back to visit their parents. And is there a distinction between that? Does that mean something? Like by the time, when home means your actual house, how long does it take before that's home? But no, but where is your original home? Yeah, Marylebone. It's not though, where is it? Or I'll just make something up. The point is, I'm saying you're not from London. And so this is doing its job as a shibboleth.

Speaker A: 00:04:41

Well, I mean, well, I suppose, to be fair, shibboleths are always designated by the people from that place. Although you're not actually from Marylebone, you're from London. So it's not the same. But look, no, we're going on a, you know.

Speaker B: 00:04:57

Well, we'll go on a detour. And then at the end, we'll come home. Well, no, unlike you, I'm going to put some research into this and then come back,

Speaker A: 00:05:05

rather than just blithely assume that I'm right. No, look, I think it's really nice. I like this. So home, I sort of think about this a lot. Perhaps everyone does. But I mean, what's interesting of the three of us sitting here, two of us have possibly switched homes recently, right? Clearly not Nick, he's not going to move anywhere forever, really. But yeah, where's home? For me, I mean, I was born in Bedford. And what this makes me think of is, I remember a few years ago, I was making a film in Lisbon. And it suddenly, we just suddenly realised that three of us standing there, even though we were all from Bedford, but we'd sort of come there sort of, not via Bedford, but through years of, you know, it's kind of coincidental, we're all from Bedford. And I suddenly heard in our accents, something that I detected as being, if you're from Bedfordshire, you would definitely recognise that accent. But it's quite a difficult accent to explain, because it's a bit of a sort of a non-accent, because it's half country, half town. And there was definitely that sort of warm glow of home within me.

Speaker B: 00:06:04

So had you flown in from Luton Airport?

Speaker A: 00:06:06

That's what it was, yeah. But no, also now when I go home, I'm driving to my village, and this will happen to me today, inshallah, which is that as I sort of go over the crest of this hill, in the sort of middle distance, I can see this beautiful church spire that's not really a spire, because it's very distinctive, it's sort of a square. And I see that the church, and I go, oh, home, you know. But I've only really lived there for two years, you know. Those are just some random thoughts, initial thoughts that make me think of home. Peter?

Speaker C: 00:06:39

Well, so, you know, I have got a less cultivated sense of home, I think. Home for me is wherever I choose to put my emotions. You mean where the heart is? Yeah, where the heart is, yeah.

Speaker A: 00:06:51

There's that famous song by Paul, what's his face? Wherever lay my emotions. Paul Young, wherever I lay my emotions, that's my home.

Speaker B: 00:07:00

Wherever I insert my emotions, that domicile, that's temporarily my abode.

Speaker C: 00:07:04

Yeah, or wherever I hang my hat. But it's, yeah, so maybe my sort of sense of home is more portable, because wherever I sort of live, if I like it, then I feel at home there. Apart from going back to my parents' house, I have a habit, maybe, of calling that home. So when referring to going to parents' house, that sort of becomes home.

Speaker B: 00:07:34

Did you live there?

Speaker C: 00:07:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I grew up there.

Speaker B: 00:07:38

Yeah, because my mum lives in a flat which is different to the one that I grew up in, you see, so that's not home. No, never been home. Although it's actually in the same house, but it's a different flat.

Speaker C: 00:07:49

Yeah, but think about the sort of scale of home. For me, there's a definite concept. I mean, the feeling of being at home, Nick, you must get that occasionally when you are somewhere that's not home, like you're on holiday somewhere, and you think, I'm really comfortable here. This is nice. Yeah. You feel at home. You have that sense of feeling at home. I have that pretty much anywhere that isn't London.

Speaker B: 00:08:19

It's on the exact inverse.

Speaker C: 00:08:22

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's not quite true. I feel at home at your house, Nick. Yeah, mi casa, su casa. Indeed. So yeah, like that feeling of getting on holiday, I kind of have that when I feel comfortable. So I love where I live now because it's very green and wooded, and I like going for long walks in the woods. And I feel at home in the woods. Like a sort of prehistoric... Hunter-gatherer type guy. Yeah, something. I have the sense of peace when I'm out doing exercise, like climbing mountains or something. For me, that feeling is kind of similar, that when I'm happy and doing something I enjoy doing, I have that sense of home. That could be halfway up a mountain in Nepal, but it's definitely not home.

Speaker A: 00:09:14

But would you really feel at home halfway up a mountain in Nepal? You might feel at one with yourself or kind of where you should be in life at that moment, but is it really home?

Speaker C: 00:09:24

To me, the feeling is indistinguishable.

Speaker B: 00:09:26

Well, here's my... I propose a test. I've only just thought of this, and it's a little bit circular. So you'll have to just run with that. You're at home if you are not going to feel homesick after any duration of time. And I think that is going to answer this question. So for me, homesickness can kick in typically on a holiday, one to two weeks. You're actually really starting to miss it. You're fantasising about sitting down with a cup of tea on the sofa and sleeping in your own bed. Be you ever so comfortable. And home is somewhere where you're never going to feel that. I have never, ever had a sense of homesickness. Nor have I felt a draw back. So this is my description of getting, putting the kettle on. You know, one of my favourite songs, actually, and I have a whole playlist for things to listen to when we're coming back from a holiday, is Frank Sinatra's It's Very Nice to Go Travelling, where he talks about going on the Camel Road to Iraq. But then there's this bit where he talks about getting back to his home in New York, putting his slippers on, making a pizza. And it just sounds idyllic. I just love the image of Frank Sinatra making a pizza. And I think that's what I fantasise about when I've been abroad for two or three weeks and all the packing and the unpacking. I think I want to get home, unpack for good and put the kettle on. Now, that's what I so. So you're saying you two are both saying that that never happens to you.

Speaker A: 00:11:00

Yeah, no, no. I take it back. So I've definitely and. And sometimes there's that mild yearning for it, but I definitely feel it when I'm back. Absolutely. Putting the key through the door, walking in the familiar smells and, you know, making a cup of tea. So no, you're absolutely right. However, on a serious point, actually, I know I joke about this, but I actually I do think you are more of a homebody, perhaps, than us. And I don't think you're massively adventurous. And you are really into home. I think it's a big thing for you. And you're especially into London. It is very much tied up with home for you. I don't feel that, as you know, and I bang on about, I've lived abroad for quite an extended period, for quite a long time. Yeah, that's true. And yet have always come back to the UK. And I always used to wonder, you know, where would I like to die? You know, where or when I become older and more decrepit than I am now, where would I end up? And actually, yeah, I mean, it's got to be probably eventually the UK. So it does feel like home. So we've teased it out of you. You've confessed that you do have a concept of home.

Speaker B: 00:12:05

Peter's maintaining a steely resolve that there is no, he feels no.

Speaker C: 00:12:09

I'm thinking back, the only times I've ever felt a yearning for is more of a yearning for not being where I am, rather than being in being at home is where, you know, We all have that yearning when you're around, Peter. Yeah, when you're out when you're travelling, or you do, it's all just a bit more stressful than it needs to be. Or you kind of just want a rest, you want a break, but it's kind of more of a sense of I just want to get out of here and go back to a nice, quiet hotel.

Speaker B: 00:12:34

Right. So I think and I think this might bring us on to what the characteristics are. Even I'm going to let you, I'm going to say that. Okay, let's, let's call it a base temporarily, because we might want to talk about what the difference between a base and a home is. But just thinking about the origin of things like homes, obviously, people probably one to three million years ago is the first evidence that humans had sort of lived in places like caves, for example. But of course, we don't really know all the evidence of what they lived in, if it wasn't a cave that has been destroyed. So it's quite hard to tell. But hunter gatherers didn't stay in one place, right? They didn't move around by and large, and as far as we can tell. And yeah, but they would have been a base, you know, people would have still had a campfire and sat around it and stuff. So there's that concept of a base, which isn't necessarily the same as home. But then when you think about like nomads, for example, they have a mobile base, but is it actually a home? I think it probably is. No, so the question is, is it just a matter of, so like when you're staying in a hotel or an Airbnb or something, that's definitely a base. But is a base really actually just a temporary home? Or is it meaningless to try and distinguish between them? Yeah, and just to extend one of the

Speaker A: 00:14:06

points you made there, if you're a nomad, can you go off and travel? Can a nomad go on holiday? Yeah, right. Because you're probably with all your other nomads, right? And let's just really sort of make it. Maybe they go on holiday to a house. Yeah. But also you've got your familiar camel and your, I mean, right. And you've got your fire and your mates and. Well, but what I don't know enough

Speaker B: 00:14:33

about is whether even nomads have like a geographical place that they consider home, this particular oasis or something, and they'll go off for nine months. They've got a very diffuse

Speaker A: 00:14:42

sense of, yeah, this whole plane is our home. I mean, this may be a stupid idea or not, but let's just really quickly, just maybe a bit prosaic, I don't know, but three words that make, if I say home to you, think of three words. And let's see what we can tease out from that. Or is this a stupid idea? No trousers on. Yeah, so if I think of home just off the top of my head, it's not necessarily three words. It's going to be family, tranquility, stability, security. It's four already. I know. Well, I'm, you know, verbose. What else? It's got to be calm. Uh, that's kind of it. Cup of tea. That's kind of it. Okay. Soft furnishings. So I mean,

Speaker B: 00:15:32

I mean, so, but the point is that you go, let's get Peter's. Well, he doesn't have one. Well, it'd be Bill's, admin and tea. Well, at least we've all got tea worked in somewhere. Yeah. But what about you, Nick? Well, no, I really meant it about the no trousers on. Right, like just being able to. That stands in for a lot. Yeah. Just having total freedom in your own castle. Exactly. I think freedom is probably it. Like, like freedom and privacy. Probably. Yeah. Shutting that door. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I was, okay. So obviously like even, well, not even animals, but I mean, other animals have, um, have, you know, territories, right. Which they defend and nests. And there are homing pigeons, which they go home. Famously go home. But so I feel like this concept is very, is very deep rooted. Weighing pigeons are much less popular. You can't hold on to them. You always end up with other people. Um, so I, I, uh, yeah, so I think there's, this is very deep seated, this idea of, uh, you know, there being at least something, which is your area. And I don't have any firsthand experience with homelessness or, you know, rough sleeping, but I I've, I've read, uh, the grass arena by John Healy, which is a absolutely brilliant account of his time as a kind of homeless alcoholic. And they, they, you know, even there, they're like, they have their skipper, which is like the place where they go. And like, if they found a good one, then that's theirs. And other people aren't other homeless people aren't really allowed to use it. And, um, so I think, I think what we're saying is this really does, everyone's got one, maybe it's diffuse and, and it doesn't matter how mobile you are or how, uh, you know, how, um, little you might own. It still, it still exists. The concept still exists. And more than it exists. It's really quite deep seated as well. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so I was looking at some stats about, um, uh, different sort of, uh, what, what features seem to be important. And so one of them was about mental health and it says, uh, this one study I looked at said, um, about 50% of homeowners are happy with their current living situation. 40% of mortgage owners are happy with their current living situation. 20, only 25% of renters, only one in four renters is happy with the situation they're in. And, um, generally in life or, or just, yeah, well, with their living. So what I'm saying is if you own your own home, you're much more likely to be happy with the place that you live. And so the reasons are, you know, to do with sort of anxiety, I guess, and uncertainty, but also the lack of control. So you might, you might think, well, if my home is sort of basically controlled by someone else, then it never, it's never going to. So if that has an impact on your happiness, then you could possibly, you could sort of postulate that one of the things that a home really needs to be, what it ought to be is entirely yours. So that if you want to put that thing on that shelf, you can, and you don't have to ask anyone's permission. So I think like an area, a thing that you have sole control over feels to me like an important aspect of it. And, and so just going sort of to the, um, uh, to the, uh, completely to that extreme, uh, 45% of homeless people have some sort of mental health problem and 80% of rough, rough sleepers. Now, obviously there's causality issues there, but, um, I think it, it shows that this is important for all kinds of reasons. Um, and that's, but that it's, um, and the fact that it's important tells you that it's, you know, one of the things that's, that's important, which is

Speaker C: 00:19:09

that control that you have. I'm not sure how that maps onto our nomadic subjects. Cause if they're, cause you would still have your things. Cause if we sort of, we kind of postulated that their sense of home is just very diffuse across maybe like, yeah, but they're tent presumably. Yeah.

Speaker A: 00:19:25

You would still have your, you know, your camel, your, your, your, your favourite thing to light the fire with. Um, but yeah, no, that sense of freedom is important. So the freedom to wear no trousers and dance around to Kanye West is all that you want. Yeah. So I found this quote by

Speaker B: 00:19:38

Levinas. Um, uh, the home is where the sense of self can be regained. I really liked that. Yeah. And it, but I had a thought which is, um, which is, uh, I'd never really had before, which was everyone knows that what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas. But I feel like that's actually just as important about your own home. Like I think your own home has to be a sort of consequence free environment. Like you, you have to feel like you're not accountable for things in a sense. Like, um, you're not going to be judged on what you do at home. Let's say it's a judgment free place. Um, and, and maybe that's a nice idea. I don't care about being judged wherever I am. No, maybe not. So I, that may be the whole world. The world is my home. Yeah. And every man is my brother. Um, but I, I, and I feel like that's what makes things like the sort of internet's invasion into the home, uh, particularly pernicious. I think that, that, you know, like people being cyber bullied at home in a way that we didn't and things like Alexa, which I find incredibly sinister. Like, you know, I, so I, I feel like there's that sense of like the idea of being watched while you're at home or recorded while you're being at home. So, so I suppose what I'm saying is upshot. One of the key characteristics of home is that you have control over it, but also that you have, um, you, you, you don't, are not going to be accountable

Speaker A: 00:21:05

for stuff you do. Privacy, I suppose I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think, I mean, I, I just don't feel that we've moved beyond, I don't think we've added anything to discussions there might have

Speaker B: 00:21:17

been around the concept of home. It's surprisingly hard to find data actually about this. I think this is, this falls into quite a common category of thing that we look at where it's something that's so, so common that people don't notice enough to actually go and study it. And so I was interested in like the influence of personality types on, on home. Like what kinds of houses do, is there a difference between the houses that extroverts live in? Right. You'd think that would be really an easy thing to study, but no, no, there's almost no data. Nobody's just really

Speaker A: 00:21:49

understudied this concept of home. I think that would be an unusual thing to study, but anyway, that's a side point. Um, look, really just some random thoughts quickly, um, talking about, I was thinking about, you know, shutting that door on privacy, um, famous, well, something I noticed in, in other countries is when you're living there is that's very much not the case. So Brazil, um, and like your home definitely spills out into the street and it's really, you don't have, and I know that one of the things that my wife finds really a bit frustrating here sometimes is how actually it can be quite difficult to get invited back to someone's house. Famously, we can be like that in the UK and she's got lots of pretty good mates and just trying to get into their house. It's got these locks. But I'm with her and actually maybe that's where I, me and her are quite, I love it when people drop by and come in. I think you're like

Speaker C: 00:22:35

that as well, Nick. That's interesting actually. Cause yeah, in, I think it's Northern Europe, really. Uh, we don't have that spilling out onto the street thing. And is there, is there it's cause it's hot. Around, around, around the edge of any person's home. Is there a sort of grey space where it's a bit more public and you're happy to. Yeah, I think that's kind of how it works. It's a sort of demilitarized zone. It's a bit like personal space, isn't it? The distance

Speaker B: 00:23:01

that people tend to stand from each other. It feels like we probably, it feels like we need quite a big demilitarized zone, but out there in, in, you know, Southern Europe, they're much

Speaker A: 00:23:12

happier to have their home. Absolutely. So that, that, that's one thing. And, um, you know, and also that sense of community, although that shared middle spaces really. Um, another couple of things, uh, one we've not, we've talked about home. We haven't really talked about coming home so much. Maybe we don't need to, but that sort of idea of coming home, but also, I mean, although everything we've said so far about home, oh, it's this, it's that. And, but also memory, we've not talked about, you know, nostalgia and why that can be so, um, powerful and evocative. And I guess all of these feelings of, of, you know, that we've talked about or I talked about of security and stability. Okay, well, let me put a hypothesis down. And there's one other thing, just one other thing is when you dream, you know, when you dream of your childhood, I mean, it must be the same for everyone. You always, of course, you always dream of, it never goes, the house where you grew up. Um, it's always like that for me. Yeah. So I think it's like that for everybody. I, I feel like

Speaker B: 00:24:07

one corollary of, uh, the home being something that you have sole control over. And by you, I think I mean your family as well, like whoever counts as your family that you and your family have sole control over is the idea that it is unchanged when you leave it alone. So it feels to me like the, like having your, your childhood bedroom unchanged when you go back means that that's still your home. Um, because it is the same as you left it. Whereas if there's a space which you, you might leave it however you'd want it. But if it's, if it can change by the time you come back, it doesn't

Speaker C: 00:24:44

count as home by the definition of control. The service team have come in and made the bed. Yeah.

Speaker B: 00:24:49

Taking away that. Unacceptable. But I mean, even just on that subject of where it starts and ends, I mean, I, I, um, I have shared a room once in my life, which is when I first went to university, I shared a room with, uh, uh, and still a friend of mine. And, um, but my home, first of all, I did feel, I felt very claustrophobic, really not having a private space, but, you know, there was still a bit, there was my zone and there was his zone and, you know, I wouldn't have slept in his bed unless I was invited, which I wasn't. But, you know, the point is that, um, that, that didn't happen. We wouldn't have, you know, like there was still an, an understanding that that bit's yours and that bit's mine. And, you know, yeah. So, so I just feel like it's, it's, it is conceptual, but the boundaries are there and it's possible that the, the grayness of those boundaries is actually really wide, which is why we can say I'm more home in Malibu than I am, you know, when I'm in Aylesbury, but Aylesbury is still more home

Speaker A: 00:25:55

than Alaska. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, I once got, I was furious to be woken up in my bed once at university and it turns out it wasn't my bed. I'd got completely drunk and gone into the room next door. Um, and fortunately there was no one there, um, and sort of bedded. I think I slept for an hour or two. Um, but to, to their credit, the person there, it was a male, it was I think he understood immediately what had happened. It was actually quite nice and an understanding about the whole thing and just ushered me out. And then in the morning I went, I'm so sorry about that. You get a bit of a pass when you're a student. Yeah, I think so. I thought we'd get a bit, get a bit of a pass on your phrase, I thought you were going to say, but, um, I feel we've drifted into a dead end on this. Well, I mean, I don't, I just don't think we've

Speaker B: 00:26:36

added, what have we said that's interesting, that's different? Um, I feel like my understanding of some of these concepts has advanced actually in this discussion. Go on. No, but that's it really. I think I've, I think I would have, I would have, I think before this, I would have, I would have assumed that, um, home was a sort of geographical location of some sort that acted as a kind of temporary storage location. And well, no, but the thing is having not really thought about it, but actually there are all these rules about what it needs to be to be a home. And I feel like

Speaker C: 00:27:11

we've isolated some of the, well, I mean, I don't know if my, if my sort of mental state on this is, is, is unhealthy in some way, but you know, I just had generally have not ever felt homesick. Maybe that's because I've never really felt at home anywhere, or maybe I just have a very, I do have a healthy, diffuse sense of home. It's kind of like wherever my kit bag is or wherever my tent

Speaker B: 00:27:34

is that night. Is your kit bag actually your home? That's the question. Would you, if someone rifled through your kit bag and added some rogue kit to it, would that violate something? Not really.

Speaker C: 00:27:45

As long as it didn't, in some way inconvenience me, like if they didn't take my sleep, if they took my sleeping bag away, that would be annoying, but I wouldn't feel kind of like violated.

Speaker B: 00:27:59

See, I mean, I, cause I think that, that the fact that burglary feels so much worse than your car being robbed, for example, is, is, you know, same thing. Same, that's, that's the, like, it definitely a special place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so we have, well, what do we, I don't know, why do, why do we have to keep mine, if, if we've, you know, mined the entire mine out, if it turns out that we've done it. Yeah, I'm not sure what they have, but I mean.

Speaker C: 00:28:27

Well, I, I think this exploring this demilitarized zone concept is quite, it's quite interesting and it is interesting that, and I think it's probably weather or something fairly fundamental. Well, I think it is exactly that. Like British streets, you have the doorstep and then it's public space, whereas in other, you know, in small, maybe even British suburbs, you have like a bit of front garden and then you have the public space, but you never get British people sitting in their front garden. Yeah, you can always tell that. If you do, everyone assumes

Speaker B: 00:28:57

they're weird. Well, yeah, where I live, it's always the Balkan gentleman who sat out in the

Speaker C: 00:29:03

garden, sharing a can of lager. Other cultures who are, who live here do, do, do do it. But it's

Speaker B: 00:29:11

nice and I'm jealous of it. And I think, I wish we did that, but much as I like the idea of getting an old sofa out onto my doorstep during a sunny afternoon. You might have to talk to people and they might come and talk to you. That is, that's the issue. And I'd feel like very exposed sat on a chair out in my front garden. In your vest and your pants. Yeah. And then everyone, you'd

Speaker C: 00:29:31

be worrying that everyone's worrying that you're kind of looking, watching them. And yeah, it would be an un-British feeling thing to do. But I think it is nice, you know, it's sort of, you know, sitting out in your front garden is kind of like saying, I'm here, you know, available for a chat if you want kind of invitation. So yeah, I quite like the idea. We'll finish off. Here's a question,

Speaker A: 00:29:58

here's a question. I'm going to ask it in two ways. What's the best thing about your home? That's one way to look at it. Or you could approach it like this. We're all not home at the moment, unless there's something about you guys I don't know, you sleep here in the studio. What are you looking forward to when you go home this evening? What does that sort of conjure up for you? What are you looking forward to most in that? So take it either way you want. Who wants to go first? I'll go first. Peter, yeah. Convenience, because it's just where all my stuff happens to be.

Speaker C: 00:30:25

He's a machine. You know, no, I suppose my family is there. My immediate family. Can we take them

Speaker B: 00:30:34

and a cup of tea off the table? Yeah, we'll take family and a cup of tea off the table.

Speaker C: 00:30:42

So for me, it is just the convenience, because it's like convenient access to stuff. Yeah, there's my stuff. That's where all my, you know, where there's a fridge with food in it. And I can just sort of, you know, I can just make some dinner and eat it without messing around, sitting

Speaker B: 00:31:04

in a restaurant or anything like that. Amazing. Yeah, amazing, man. So I've got I've got I've got

Speaker A: 00:31:11

an inner core. Well, I think yours are gonna be more interesting than mine. So let's do mine first then go to you. So I do know what we said we can't talk about family. I can't think about walking home and walking into my house without it's just inconceivable. That collective groan

Speaker B: 00:31:28

from your children. Yeah. And all the joy and fun is drained out of it. And a doom descends upon it.

Speaker A: 00:31:39

Yeah. Yeah. So without I just I just can't but within the house itself or the home where I am. Yeah, there's a room I have upstairs, which actually the main living room is upstairs. And it's just, it's got it's got very deep, dark pink sofas. And I love those sofas. Your man cave.

Speaker B: 00:32:01

Sofas. Soft furnishings. I think sofa but a sofa where you can entirely lie. Yeah, you know, without without feeling that you're on someone else's sofa.

Speaker A: 00:32:12

Yeah, I've had a dog on it. And one of them cats might come and see me. And even if that cat doesn't, that's kind of all part of it as well. Because, you know, he's really into my wife, not me. Like everyone else is. So, yeah.

Speaker B: 00:32:28

Two cats in the yard. Life used to be so hard. Everything is easy. Our House by Cosby, Stills and Nash. The first thing I do when I get home is sit on the piano. So that's, that seems to be the thing. That is what I miss actually is and I think it's that sense of control over now I can make loads of noise and I don't care how good it is. Yeah. But actually, see, I have this inner, the inner core of my house, which is the bunker. Right. Yeah. Describe this because I've been to the bunker. Peter's been to the bunker. We all know the bunker. What's the bunker? Well, basically, if you're in the kitchen, you go down on yet another set of stairs. It's a converted sort of cellar area, which would at one point have stored crap and coal and that kind of thing. And now mainly stores my board games. Now it doesn't store coal anymore. Usually stores my son on the computer. And, and, you know, there's a table there where we play board games and it's like, it's probably, but because it's underground, it has this even like secluded, even more secluded than everywhere else. Bunkery feel about it. That's right. That's right. And so, yeah, I hadn't really thought about the concept of actually taking that, that idea of London slightly home. And now if you shrink that sphere, where does, where's the single point from where it all emanates? And I think it will be downstairs in the bunker somewhere. It would be the, that was the absolute inner core. Not my bedroom, but the bunker, the inner sanctum. Yeah. The inner sanctum. Yeah. Where does the gradient actually, you know, stop? From what point are you always going away from home if you leave that

Speaker A: 00:34:08

point? And just a brief aside, something you mentioned there, I was in Morocco last week, had a lovely holiday at this villa, beautiful villa, nice open plan design and dah, dah, dah. It was all lovely. But one thing that I was really missing was being able to play a musical instrument and I'm not nearly as gifted as you. And I play a few different ones, very much Jack of all trades, but that's what I really missed is just being able to sit down and play an instrument, make some noise. Well, look, it's time to finish. Time to say goodbye from our second home here at our studios in Marylebone and just say thank you as always for listening to the Cognitive Engineering Podcast. I'm Fraser McGruer. We've been here with Nick Hare and Peter Coghill of Aleph Insights. Until next time, goodbye.