Weather Symbolism
In this episode, we explore why weather carries such powerful symbolic meaning in storytelling and everyday language. From storms representing conflict and change, to sunshine signalling hope and renewal, we unpack how these associations appear across literature, film and culture. We consider whether these meanings are rooted in physical experience—how weather affects our bodies and behaviour—or whether they emerge from deeper symbolic structures in how we think.
We also examine how context shapes interpretation, noting that the same weather can mean very different things depending on geography, culture or situation. Along the way, we introduce a “symbolism-o-meter” to explain why certain phenomena—like weather—are especially rich for metaphor, due to their universal human experience and wide range of variations. Finally, we reflect on personal moments where weather and emotion aligned, illustrating how these symbolic connections play out in real life.
A Passing Storm: https://www.artrenewal.org/artworks/a-passing-storm/james-jacques-joseph-tissot/1133
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering Podcast brought to you by Aleph Insights and produced by me, Fraser McGruer. I'm here with Nick Hare and Peter Coghill of Aleph Insights. On this podcast we look at a wide range of topics from an analytical viewpoint.
And today we're discussing weather symbolism. Nick, famously, you're of a sunny disposition.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:I don't. We've got stormy weather ahead of us here. I think I should stop with all this weather symbolism. I'm trying to sort of leverage in his and shovel in.
Speaker B:So this occurred to me when I was in a county with which you are quite familiar, known as Lincolnshire. I was up there because my mum's got a house there. We were there all as a family.
Speaker A:Oh, thanks for dropping there.
Speaker B:Having a. Having. It's a long way from your bit.
Speaker A:This is big county.
Speaker B:Second, this is the north, near. Near the Norfolk port borders. It was starting to get quite gloomy outside and there's a barometer on the wall.
So I set the barometer, the little wheel of the barometer, little arm, and it was in the change bit. And then as the storm increased, you could see it, you could see the pressure doing whatever it's meant to do, dropping, I think is bad.
So you could see the pressure dropping it like it was moving like at the speed of a minute hand or something. It's great. And I suddenly felt quite exhilarated. I thought, I quite like the idea of a good storm.
And, you know, I couldn't help thinking, maybe there'll be a sort of clearing of the air and maybe some exciting family argument will happen or something at the same time. But anyway, it got me thinking, why does that work so well? Why is.
Why is a storm and why is wind change and why is that, you know, whether that's good or evil? Where does this symbolic association of weather come from? And there is no doubt, I think it is easy to accept that this exists.
But just to give you a few examples from the literature is looking at rain. What does rain mean?
Speaker A:Well, brilliant. So you've taken one sort of weather element.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Let's see.
Speaker B:What does it mean? What do people say this means? Longfellow, An April day. Be still, sad heart and cease repining. Behind the clouds the sun is shining.
Thy fate is the common fate of all. Into each life some rain must fall, some days must be dark and dreary. But then we. Then we have. So this sort of.
There's a sadness element like this sadness, but potentially temporary rain. Rain does go away. Relief and cleansing. Taxi Driver. Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets. Shelley's the Cloud.
I bring fresh showers for the thirsting flowers from the seas and the streams. So this, you know, clouds. They're doing good stuff and bad stuff. Storms and wind. I think they represent passion, don't they? Wuthering.
One thinks of Wuthering Heights and the windy moors and torment and anguish. Blow, winds and crack your cheeks from King Lear. But also a storm is cleansing.
Nature with equal mind sees all her sons at play, sees man control the wind, the wind sweep man away. But also change or reckoning. I think possibly one of my favorite quotes of all time.
Arthur Harris, Bomber Harris the Nazi, entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation.
They sowed the wind and now they're going to reap the whirlwind. Absolutely brilliant. And Julius Caesar in, you know, the Shakespeare. Blow, wind, swell billow and swim bark. The storm is up and all is on the hazard.
So wind equals change or reckoning winds and storms. Sun, sun is life. Blessed power of sunshine, genial day. What balm what life is in thy Ray Thomas More. But also opportunity and positive change.
Make hay while the sun shines. That's actually from Don Quixote, believe it or not. I thought it was just an old. Yeah, look. Look over yonder. What do you see? The sun is arising.
Most definitely. A new day is coming and people are changing. Tommy James and the Shondales. Heat, one of my favorites, particularly popular in cinema. Heat as tension.
How many films are there which start.
Speaker C:On a hot day in la or Oppression and Exposure.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah. Like, do the right thing, you know, big heat wave. And everything comes to a head and in an explosion.
And it's Streetcar Named Desire, of course, he is. This kind of. The emotional tension as well. Snow. Stillness, Peace, stasis. Innocent purity and innocence. Yeah. So I think. And I.
Anyway, I feel like I've given way more evidence than any listener will need, because they will just go, yes, of course. The weather means stuff. We get it.
Speaker C:But why?
Speaker B:Why? That's what we're here to ask.
Speaker A:Just one to add, which I rather like, is there's a painting, I think it's called something like A Passing Storm or something like that. It's probably about 19th century, maybe slightly earlier. And you can see there's a. There's a young couple Maybe newly married, something like that.
And they've had an argument.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I think one's in one side of the room, one's the other, and they're looking a bit. You don't need to know what they look like in a way, because in the background you can see a storm has occurred, but it's just passing.
Speaker B:Oh, that's nice.
Speaker A:And light rays are just starting to come through.
Speaker B:And so. Yeah, excellent. It just makes perfect sense. Like it doesn't need to be explained. Yeah, someone needs to.
If there's a saint who's got some weird mark on his body, someone needs to sit down and explain that to you. No one needs to explain that. A storm and an argument are very similar. Right. So why. How does that work?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah. And just. I can't resist just because you mentioned Bomber Harris and I know, yeah.
Before that happened, I'm sure people have talked about, and certainly have since, about the storm clouds of war gathering.
Speaker B:I mean, storm clouds gathering is one of the most potent to the. To the extent that when I see storm clouds gathering, I feel excited at the thought of some coming great confrontation. I mean, it's just.
It's one of the most emotionally kind of rousing weather phenomena you can get is seeing a massive thunderhead on the horizon, you know, so.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I mean, so it'll be interesting what we come up with this. If we can come up with something, you know, add value to previous discussions that the world has had about weather and describing events.
Speaker B:Well, I think the problem is we've left this to the literary types for too long, and it's time for the data people to have a go.
Speaker A:It's time for us, it's our time, it's the data people, because I know what I think on this, but we don't want to hear what I think, Peter. Well, you're an guy, go for it.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I'm a fan of the sort of the literal explanation, you know, whether the temperature, the pressure have a physiological effect on you. You may have noticed when it rains, you get wet. Right. And when you get wet, you get cold.
Speaker B:He's right, Fraser.
Speaker A:This is explaining so much.
Speaker B:This is the kind of depth that we. On this podcast.
Speaker C:Yeah, So, I mean, so. But kind of going a little deeper.
So your ability to predict those, even by minutes or hours, the effect of the weather is going to give you an advantage in evolutionary terms, isn't it? So as you detect, you could you detect on some level the pressure drop, which is. Which is predictive of Heavy rain or snow or change in weather.
So it's useful. So it's useful to have that. And the way that the body manifests that is in an emotional response to, say, danger coming, get to shelter.
Speaker B:There's a sort of deep ancestral practicality to it.
Speaker C:There's a deep ancestral practicality is a.
Speaker A:Nice way of putting it. What's interesting, I mean, I completely agree, and I think it's really interesting historical example is the.
Japanese Imperial Navy, circa:Yamamoto could be very interesting man. And in planning.
When he was planning the Pearl harbor attack, and in fact, any kind of attack, he insisted, like, his aide sort of came in, or maybe his superior, what's going on here? You're doing nothing. And he was like, well, it's because the air pressure is dropping. And I never plan stuff. I never make big decisions, big plans.
When that's what's when. That's when the. When the air pressure is dropping.
Speaker B:Was he cheekily looking at a barometer or could he just tell?
Speaker A:Well, who knows? Who knows? I think. No, I think as a naval guy, he would definitely be.
Speaker B:He would feel it, but he would.
Speaker A:Also be using, you know, a barometer as well.
Speaker B:Yes. I'm wary of the kind of Orientalism which says that Japanese people are somehow uniquely in touch with nature, but at the same time, I quite like it.
So let's go with it.
Speaker A:But anyway, I mean this completely.
You know, if such luminaries of history, such as the guy who planned the Pearl harbor attack, which was in some measures very successful, that backs up what you're saying, Peter.
Speaker C:Yeah. So it worked. Yeah. In other words, it works because the symbolism grounded in the sense that weather actually does precede change.
You know, rain genuinely dampens your mood and changes your behavior.
Speaker B:Yeah. Wet wind actually does knock things down and cause a bit of chaos, but it blows away dirt and dust.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Rain cleans things. Yeah, it's wet.
Speaker C:So they're not. There's not. They're not arbitrary projections. They are actually grounded in sort of in reality. That's all I really had to say about that.
Speaker B:No, just some other things which I think support the literalist sort of view, which is, you know, you don't. Let's not even try and look for symbolism here. It's not even symbolism. It's just like, look, warmth is pleasant, so the sun is pleasant.
And Makes us happy.
Speaker A:Not too much warmth.
Speaker B:Not too much warmth. You don't want too much heat because then you'll get a kind of race riot in a New York suburb.
Speaker A:Building. I can feel building.
Speaker B:Snow actually does cover things up. It hides things and it muffles sound, ergo, peaceful. The sun actually does give life.
I don't know if you know this, I know you're not much of a scientist, but if you didn't have the sun, it would be. Crops would struggle to grow.
Speaker A:And that's the trouble.
Speaker B:Yeah, indeed. So. So anyway, there, there's. I think I. I like that. But actually, you know, how could. How far.
How much of this is sort of is us actually experiencing kind of this directly versus how much might actually just be a cultural association. Because I was thinking, well, perhaps let's say sun is relatively, really nice, hot, sunny days in the uk, relatively rare.
And we go, oh, that's really nice. Now, could it be the case, for example, that someone living in Saudi Arabia would feel the same about. About rain?
Like, do they think all rain is this makes me feel nice and pleasant? And the answer is, I don't know. I do struggle. Oh, yeah. Is the answer that they do think,.
Speaker A:Oh, no, they love it.
Speaker B:They love a bit of rain.
Speaker A:They absolutely love it.
Speaker B:Yes. I was in Vegas once when it rained.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And apparently that's incredibly rare without. It was a similar thing. Anyway, carry on. What happened in Saudi Arabia when.
Speaker A:Well, I lived in Qatar and like, it never rained. Maybe it rained once when I was there, I can't remember. But certainly also what I remember, I went on holiday. In between, I had a few weeks off.
I went to the Caribbean, I think, because I had some money because I'd been working in Qatar. And when I was at the airport, it rained and like tropical rain. And I ran outside and it was just like the ending from.
Or the quasi ending from the Shawshank Redemption. I literally stood there with my arms in the ex. I'd seen rain for months and months. But no, they sort of. They love rain.
Speaker B:I mean, that sort of supports the literalist theory and as well, in a sense that. Because it's. It's actually what we're. What, what it is that you associate with the rain is in fact the physical relief. You know, it's not.
It's not rain per se, it's physical comfort, whatever. However that looks wherever you live, you know, whether that's.
Well, it's been freezing and you can't go outside and now suddenly it's warm versus, well, it's been boiling and you can't go outside versus suddenly it's cool. So you know, but the question is whether or not they have.
I suppose what I'm talking about is more, the slightly more removed associations eg between snow and innocence or between, between rain and cleansing, for example.
And I actually, I couldn't basically as far as I can tell and I didn't find any direct studies of this but as far as I can tell the, the more literal the association, the more cross cultural it is.
But apparently those allegedly, apparently the, you know, the associations between, between the sort of emotion emotions and the weather and certain types of weather are less cross cultural.
But yeah, I think the thing is that we, it is hard to tell because it's very hard to find people who aren essentially in the same kind of global culture when it comes to weather. And we all share the same sorts of symbolism from fiction and so on. I mean, for example, tornadoes.
Well, I've never experienced a tornado, but I kind of know what they mean emotionally because I've seen it on telly.
So, but, but anyway, so I think those, if once we've got those out of the way, I think it'll be interesting to think about the actually the symbolism theory which is, which is that yes, there is a symbolism, but it's because they share more abstract features. It's not just about well, you know, oh, it's warm and warmth is nice. It's.
Well, why is it that for example we use the term warmth to describe someone's personality? Like what is it that is, that is mapping across in a way that seems meaningful.
So you know, and I've isolated a few things which I think could a plausible dimensions that map from one to the other. So for example, visibility, fog. We use fog as a metaphor for brain fog, for being confused or uncertainty or uncertainty. Exactly. Fog of war.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So, so I mean clarity. Why does clarity feel like a thing that is also applicable to kind of understanding? Now this is actually not a totally literal association.
There is a symbolic association there. But, but so there's that there's sort of the visibility that weather can affect stability whether or not there's dramatic change happening.
So any, any system that is sort of steady and stable is more like a weather, a weather event that is steady and stable.
And that basically means a sort of moderately warm sunny day, moderately warm sunny day with no clouds and nothing else happening is going to be steady and stable versus a storm which is going to be volatile and changing. So whether that is changeable is going to map onto things that are changeable. Right. Physical comfort. Some types of weather are fine. Physically easy.
Warm, sunny day, physically comfortable, easy. Strong winds and storms and snow are hard. They're physically hard to get through.
So that suggests that things that are relatively easy should be more like a sunny day. And things that are relatively physically hard should be more like rain and snow and mud. You see where I'm going with this?
Speaker C:I do see where you're going with it.
Speaker B:I've only got one more. It's just scale as well. Like is it a local phenomenon or a large scale phenomenon? So something like a hurricane is very big. Right.
And it affects a lot of people at once. So you sort of think, well, things.
If we want a metaphor that's going to work for a war, it wants to be something more like a hurricane rather than a gust of wind. Right. So anyway, there you go.
There's my sort of just four plausible dimensions which you could describe weather on that would then potentially map to. Or anything else you like. I mean, we can almost use this as a way of discovering what, what type of weather. A cup of coffee.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I buy it, I get it. I just, I struggle to see, I think there's. I struggle to make it coherently universal in my mind because I think there's.
You have different parts of the world, you have different. If we have different kinds of effects. So, for example, Northern hemisphere sun is kind of the good, is good thing.
Speaker B:It's the good guy.
Speaker C:It's the good guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, but.
Speaker C:But in the desert, sun is the bad thing. It's the oppressive, unescapable, unpleasant heat that.
Speaker B:Yes, I suppose, like drizzle in the autumn in the UK or something. It's like, it's always. The skies are always kind of some shade of gray.
Speaker C:It's kind of flipped. Right. The sun is the bad thing.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker C:Near the equator and it's a good thing in the northern hemisphere. And likewise rain. For us, rain is the depressing and terrible thing. But in the, in the, in the Gulf, rain is exciting and quite interesting.
Speaker B:I suppose so. Although I don't think rain is as simple as that because.
Although I know we moan about it, but I do think it has a sort of cleansing property that we, that we like. I think there's something nice about.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, and it flip. Even in, even in the Northern hemisphere, it flips season to season. So rain in the winter is pretty horrid.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker C:But rain, a sudden rain shower on a really hot summer's day has that kind of rain relief, cathartic sort of exciting effect.
Speaker A:As long as it's not during your barbecue.
Speaker C:As long as it's not during your.
Speaker B:Barbecue, which it always is.
Speaker C:Well, but you can just imagine, like the emergency exit from the cricket pitch. Everyone darts to the pavilion for a cup of tea, watches the exciting rate thunderstorm. Five minutes later, back on the pitch.
Yeah, yeah, it's sort of.
Speaker B:And the air is clearing.
Speaker C:Air is clear. It's dropped by 5 degrees. It's much nicer.
Speaker B:Oh, he's really selling this to me.
Speaker C:It's sort of. Rain becomes a good thing. So it's not. I. I struggle to see it.
I struggle to make sort of, make it universal because it's sort of really dependent on context.
Speaker A:So while, while you've been talking there.
Speaker B:Between the two, while we've been rabbiting on.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've been half listening and what I was hearing I liked.
Speaker B:But where's your mind been wager in the South Seas, envisaging a fine thunderstorm that you want to experience?
Speaker A:Not quite. I've been feverishly working the other half of my brain on developing a new tool that we might use.
Speaker B:I love it. Yeah.
Speaker A:And you're gonna like this. It's called a symbolism ometer. Okay. Symbolismometer. Because I was thinking about. I mean, if we ask.
So I think the question we asked in this podcast is weather and symbolism. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. I. I think we can sort of move that we can think about this in a different way.
Speaker B:This is most unlike you, Fraser and I.
And I. I suppose I'm looking at this in the same way you might look at a child who's just produced, you know, a heartfelt but amateurish daub and say that this is a wonderful. Yeah. So I'm really interested to see what this framework is.
Speaker C:I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. It might be amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He could have just aced it. First time. It's the first time he's ever invented a framework.
Speaker A:That was enough for me. Treat me as a sort of a child. That's fine. That's fine by me. So look, if we ask the question, hey, whether in symbolism, why.
But I think you could also ask the same question about things like time of day. We can talk about the dawning or something, or the sun setting on something. We can even talk about color. Right.
We're going through a purple patch, for example, but not just in that literal sense, in how we feel about colors and what they mean to us. We can talk about animals Right.
Speaker B:Seasons. We didn't mention seasons, but seasons and times. I mean.
Speaker A:Well, the thing is, I mean, age. Right. We can use that in a metaphor. I mean, movement. Okay. And on and on and on.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Okay, so I think we're asking slightly not quite the right question, but we're close. By the way. I have to say my symbolismometer only has kind of two sort of elements.
Speaker B:If there's any one dimension. Well, therefore it might be a two by two matrix. But let's, let's. It's definitely got one element.
Speaker A:I'm not sure if I follow.
Speaker B:It might end up with zero elements,.
Speaker A:But we'll see how we get on. Bear in mind I was only using 50% of my brain for five minutes.
Speaker B:So, you know, that's usually our standard, isn't it? I think anything.
Speaker A:So the thing, the question is. Yeah. There's kind of two. There are two questions. Right.
First of all, if we, if we think about all these things, whether it's, you know, age, time of day, weather, dimensions. Right. Do humans experience it? That's the first thing, right. Do humans experience it in a universal sense?
Now that doesn't mean they experience it in the same way, but do they experience. Do humans experience cold? Right, of course they do.
Speaker B:Directly experience.
Speaker A:Yeah, directly.
Speaker B:Not cognitively, but physically kind of thing.
Speaker A:Yeah. Okay, okay. Do they experience it?
Speaker C:One is the commonality. That's the important thing.
Speaker B:Well, hang on, he's getting to that.
Speaker A:Yeah. So not the interpretation, but that does it happen?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then onto the second thing. It's proto at the moment. This sort of develops plenty of room.
Speaker B:For him polishing up. But it's a good diamond in the rough.
Speaker A:Yeah, but the second, if we ask about the utility function of this dimension.
Speaker B:My God, what happened to it?
Speaker A:We think about the utility function of this dimension for explaining any kind of human emotion. Right.
Speaker B:Well, let's say it is mapping how well it maps onto some other. Yes, right.
Speaker A:Specifically in terms of variety. Okay, so.
Speaker B:Right, but.
Speaker A:And this is where you can start to measure one sort of diet, one sort of phenomenon. That was the word I was looking for. This way you can measure one phenomenon against another. Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And this actually helps us answer our weather question. Right, go on. Because if you look at. I'd be interested. You could probably get the data if you were to measure metaphors, symbolism.
If we just choose one thing, let's say literature. Right, right. And get the data for how often is movement used, how often is time of day, use color, etc.
And go down and Add a bunch more, you know, of other phenomena and weather. Right. Weather would score really highly, I bet. Okay. And the reason why think about weather tends to be quite a lot of it. Right.
Speaker B:Particularly in Britain, by the way, what you're saying.
Speaker A:Whereas if we think about age, I mean, broadly, there's seven ages of man. Right. So let's say for a moment there's seven. Okay. Well, if we talk about.
Speaker B:We know there are because we did that. We did an episode on that and it was one of our best, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree. If we took about time of day, it's very limited. Right. There's lots you can use from, you know, seasons. There are four. Right. If you're in the uk.
True story. Right. But if we talk about weather. Oh, there's a lot of it. And even if.
Speaker B:Right. There's a lot of categories, a lot of values that the category weather can take. Yeah.
Speaker A:And so that's why it's not a.
Speaker B:Quantity and it's not, crucially, just to add to your thing. It's not just quantitative because of this categorical difference between different types of weather.
So it gives you a lot of texture that you can use.
Speaker C:It's highly delineated. We have hundreds of different words for types of rain, but we could just call it all a rain.
Speaker B:But actually, crucially, there aren't a million. Right.
There's a small number, but actually between 5 and 10, which is a great number number for a number of things that we can kind of remember at the same time.
Speaker C:We don't have 12 seasons, we've got four.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:That's enough.
Speaker A:Yeah. So weather is so rich in what it offers to the human experience. So this is. This is what I've been working on. I'm very pleased with it.
Speaker B:I love it. So we've got sort of direct experience. How often and how salient is the experience. But then we've got like the.
Essentially how rich is the characterization of that thing? And it can't be too rich. There can't be a million potential things for it, but they can't only just be one or two.
So if you have something where we're very familiar with it, but also that it can take on lots of quite distinct values, then it offers. It's informative enough, or at least it can be informative enough to map onto some other thing like that, like emotions. I'm. I'm a big fan.
I think you've got an interesting observation there.
Speaker A:Yeah, thanks.
Speaker B:I'm just. I'm just so surprised.
Speaker A:Well, it's like.
Speaker B:So it's completely. It's completely wrapped in all of those things.
Speaker A:So you're not just going to pin this up on the fridge and say it's great and then throw it away a month from now. You're going to keep this one.
Speaker B:Right. I reckon. But it, but it's. I think that that thing about sort of it.
It being almost a compression, you know, that actually when we talk about a, you know, snow being like something thing, we're compressing lots of information because, you know, snow has all these features and this maps onto this other thing and it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And by the way, just communicate a.
Speaker B:Lot of free stuff, basically.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I mean, I'll let you sort out the details with the model. I'll hand it over to you guys.
But one thing I quite like about this is how different weather can mean different things in different places. As we were talking about with rain, you can't feed that into this model that I've created, that I've developed. But it's a fun thing about it.
So, for example, something that struck me when I lived in Brazil, which is hello. Magazine in the uk, if you want to know someone super posh and successful and celeb like, you might.
Yes, you might see them photographed at the house. But if they were on holiday, where might they be on holiday?
Speaker B:Posh, actually. Posh. Rich Balmoral celebrity. Okay, well then actually, I don't know.
Speaker A:Are they gonna be somewhere. Think about weather. Where they're gonna be.
Speaker B:Florida or they'll be somewhere hot. Yes, in the Caribbean. If you're.
Speaker A:If you're a Brazilian celebrity, where do we see Scarborough almost. Will you see somewhere snowy? We see you somewhere. Finland.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Because. Because it means you can afford to go to these sort of cold places. And my God, it's hot all the time in Brazil.
And it just flips that weather thing around. I don't know if it's relevant to this, but I mean, anyway.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, but I think you've had. I think you've contributed a useful tool there, which. Which is. I think if I put up, it.
Speaker A:Had to happen at some point.
Speaker B:Well, if I say, look, here's, here's. I want to. I think these things can be symbolic of stuff. You've got a way of going, well, can they be? Because actually color is great example. Right.
It gets scores top marks because we all experience color all the time and there's only seven of them. I know physicists might dispute that, but let's say there's about seven colors that we can distinguish between. So they would map on quite nicely.
Speaker A:And, but also at the same time, therefore you would expect to see, in our survey of literature, you would expect to see more weather symbolism than you would color symbolism. I mean, color's great for symbolism, brilliant. But weather, arguably, if not better, certainly more options available to you.
Speaker B:So I think 1. So this question of kind of symbolic association which we've been talking about, of sort of the way that.
Which is sometimes is so obvious in a way to us that we don't really think about how it is actually quite interesting and unusual for us to be able to immediately appreciate that say snow and the concept of innocence have in some sense similarity, whether that's partly cultural, whatever, but we do recognize that there's some similar similarity there that works.
But I think, you know, that, that this question of sort of, well, we can drill down and go, these things are sort of associated with those things and those things are associated with other things and so on.
So one of my favorite theories, and it crops up a lot on this podcast, is construal level theory, which is this idea that there are these two really important underlying metaphors which a lot of other concepts all somehow get down to. It's almost like imagine there is these two secret forces.
And actually, I mean there are a lot of those kind of systems of ways of characterizing, you know, binary distinctions like yin and yang, for example, which actually very plausibly map onto this. So I like it because it feels very powerful, but that basically they're called near and far. And the idea is that lots. So what maps to near?
Right here, now here's quite near here.
But now me, us, local events, but concrete things, things you can touch, context dependent things, unstructured, messy things, detailed things, incidental features, safety, kind of social closeness, emotions, moral immediacy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:What maps to far so there then and them kind of global events, abstract things, schematic things, order, law, context free things, things to do with goals and objectives and strategy.
And the reason I mention this is because I wonder if actually underlying our sort of mid level weather symbolism, that there isn't a deeper level of symbolism which is. And the reason I say this because I think that, you know, I have this reaction to it being a nice day. I told you, didn't I phrase what I said?
I said I'm in a good mood and it's a nice day. And those two are not completely unconnected.
And part of the reason why I am in a good mood is because good weather Encourages me to think about the long term, encourages me to think about the future, to get excited about things.
Speaker A:And as we know from what Peter said, physiologically it makes you feel good as well.
Speaker B:Right.
But it, but so I have also personally discovered after some coaching that I had a few years ago, that I have two very, very similar fundamental distinctions of experience. Which is one, one of which is I called Saturday morning and another which is Sunday evening.
And Sunday evening things are things to do with productivity and finishing things and doing things and preparing and anxiety of what's coming. Anxiety and Saturday morning blank page things. Oh, I've got loads of time, excitement about things I might do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:And actually they're very, very similar. Far, far maps onto Saturday morning, near maps onto Sunday evening, Sunday evenings. I've made it sound really negative, but it's not. It's more about.
It's more about sort of practically doing stuff and sorting stuff out and, and.
Speaker C:Actions and completion, finding your tie, polishing.
Speaker B:Your shoes, that kind of stuff. And so. And so, and so I'm.
Anyway, I'm raising that because, I don't know, it might resonate with some listeners, but for me it works really well as a, as a kind of.
It's just interesting to think that our sort of next level down symbolic associations might themselves have symbolic association associations which when you get deep enough might be like actually quite binary. There might be not very many of them, which is a nice and fun idea.
Speaker C:And it's sort of, I mean, and that does map on to models of how our brains work.
Speaker B:Well, that's what I mean. Like there is a, in a way near a system one and far is system two. You know, you could say there's a sort of masculine.
Masculine traits and feminine traits association. Yeah. That politics, you know, that there's sort of left wing politics is sort of quite near and right wing politics tends to be far. Not always.
This is sweeping generalizations. But. But I, but anyway, so I'm saying we are really.
Speaker A:Okay, fine. I don't want to delve into it. I slightly miss how that sort of relates to either symbolism or weather, but.
Speaker B:Well, it's.
Speaker A:I'm sure it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's just like, like what I'm saying is if real life things that we experience can symbolize more abstract things to us because it kind of makes sense that they do. What I'm saying is, are there even deeper associations where we can sort of say, oh well, all of these things,.
Speaker C:Like the symbolism is the middleware.
Speaker B:Yeah. That actually you kind of rain there's something about sort of rain and wind that are, you know, symbol that. That end up funneling down to near.
And there's something about sun and, you know, and snow or something which funnels. Funnel down to the far. And if, if that's true, it's merely interesting, which is why I raise it. Wouldn't it be interesting?
But, but, but I think observing that these binary systems, these idea of two forces of sort of order and chaos, yin and yang are complete, are very, very common. That, that, you know, that at the root of all of our symbolism are two big symbols which govern all of the others is fun. It's a fun idea.
And I'm just putting it out there without necessarily claiming that it's true, but it kind of works for me.
Speaker A:Okay, you're in danger of sounding a little bit like me at the end there, just to, you know, flag that. Okay, I want to finish this off. Just a quick question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tell me what you think. Adjust it, change it if you want. I want to talk about best weather, but obviously I want to tighten it up to emotions as well.
And I gave an example of rain and how that felt great, but that's not my actual answer. But, yeah, give me a moment. That was so tied to weather and it might not even be a happy moment.
It could be whatever you want it to be, but where it either matched your. Yeah, I've got one actually. But, yeah, whether the weather or change in weather symbolically matched for you how things were going. Can I kick off?
Actually?
Speaker B:Yeah, that would be helpful.
Speaker A:It popped into my head as I was saying it. I remember in my final exam at university that I went into the exam and we'd had this brooding weather. Obviously it's the summer.
We'd had this brooding weather for weeks, which had sort of just been hanging over us all. And, you know, the pressure was building, let's say.
And on my very last exam, I think there was a massive storm and the sky cleared and the air was fresh and it was sunny. And I came out of that and had this sort of beautiful release and out I went into the world and everything was wonderful for a bit.
I had an ice lolly. It was the best ice lolly I'd ever had in my life. And went off and just had so much fun in the sun.
It was wonderful, wonderful for a bit because then I got the results about three months later. My exams, I've done terribly, but that sort of change in the weather and it matched precisely and mapped precisely. What do you got?
Speaker C:I'VE got to say my example is for the same weather it's not particularly.
Speaker B:I think the problem is we're going to probably end up all having the same kind of experience. But yeah, Peter, it wasn't sort of.
Speaker C:It wasn't particularly sort of symbolic in terms of a period of my life, but it was just a very nice experience. So it was. I used to look after my daughter Ada on a Wednesday before, before she started school. She. Yeah, she. I stay.
I'd stay at home and look after Ada for a day and we'd go and do things. But this was a, this was a day. She was about 18 months, nearly 2 years old I think and it was a really hot summer's day.
Yeah, she must have been nearly two. It's a really hot summer's day. And it was one of those days when the morning got. It just got hotter and hotter and he's keeping all the windows open.
You can't keep cool and the humidity's going up and you can feel a storm coming. And the storm came and I said it was such a warm day. We were playing in the garden. She was wearing a swimming costume. Let's go outside in the rain.
And she found it incredibly exciting. So it's really fun to watch her sort of dancing around the rain and ever since she's always been really excited by rain.
Speaker B:Oh, that's great.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker B:Great dadding.
Speaker C:Yeah, she loves the rain.
Speaker A:Nice. Yeah.
Speaker B:I do actually have quite an interesting. For me it was a really fun, you know that I'm a board gamer. Regular listeners will know I love a good board game.
And I had a weekend of board games where I had a bunch of people come over. This is about 10, 15 years ago. And when.
As you know, one of the reasons I like board games is they allow you to sort of have a lot of experiences in quite a short frame of time.
You might, you might play 20 games over the course of a weekend of game and, and you know, you might be a 16th century farmer one minute and a, you know, a World War I general the next minute and you know, you go through a lot of experiences and when people arrived at the weekend of Game, it was a beautiful sunny day, right?
It was a really sort of bright spring morning and then on the Saturday, on the Saturday evening it started to snow and it snowed all night and then it was morning.
Speaker A:Wow, okay.
Speaker B:And the next morning the snow had all settled but it was now just. The whole of London was covered in snow. And when people left it was like midwinter.
And it was, it really supported that sense that I'd had that, you know, we had experienced a long period of time playing board games in the house. You know, it was 48 hours. But the weather enhanced this sense that it had actually been the best part of a year. So.
Speaker A:Yeah, nice. So almost like four seasons in one weekend.
Speaker B:Well, indeed, yeah.
Speaker A:All right, Very good. Nice. I feel very satisfied by our discussion just now.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:All right, we'll stop there. You've been listening to the Cognitive Engineering podcast brought to you by Aleph Insights and produced by me, Fraser McGruer.
If you haven't already, please like and subscribe. We try to release an episode every week or two.
If there are any topics that you would like us to cover, please email us at podcast@alephinsights.com thanks as always for listening. Until next time, goodbye.
