Shoe signals
Nick, Chris and Fraser discuss whether one can reasonably expect a modern gentleman to own tan colored shoes. What can you tell about a person from their shoes?
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering Podcast produced by Tell Me Studios for Aleph Insights. In this series of podcasts we take a look at interesting topics and discuss what we think they tell us about analysis and decision making. I'm Fraser McGruer and I'm here with Chris Wragg and Nick Hare of Aleph Insights and this week we're discussing shoes. So Nick, I believe you have a social engagement coming up and shoes are a factor in this. Tell us.
Speaker B:Yeah, well I'm going to a wedding in Italy in about a month's time and I'm an usher and so that means the groom has very kindly bought me a suit but part of the condition of this suit, of owning this suit, is that I have to wear tan shoes. It's a very dark blue suit and in order to fit in with the other ushers I need to wear a pair of tan shoes. That's very Italian, tan shoes. Well the problem is I don't own any tan shoes. In fact, I've only got two pairs of shoes which one is my comfortable pair and the other is my smart pair and they're both black. And anyway, so I conducted a quick survey of, it was actually in a pub at the time with him this weekend and I was asking various random members of the population of Bournemouth how many of them had tan shoes and the answer was actually only about two out of ten people we asked owned tan shoes. But the other people there did own tan shoes, so the other people going to the wedding, apparently needing tan shoes was not an issue for them. Anyway, so we're having discussion about tan shoes and you know whether a proper gentleman ought to just own a pair of tan shoes. Only for the country, right? Yeah, maybe, I don't know. Blue and brown, never in town. Right, I'm so hopeless with shoes and clothes in general that I just don't have a sense of whether this is normal or strange to not own tan shoes.
Speaker C:Well I have a pair of tan shoes I could lend you.
Speaker B:What size are your feet? Size 10. I'm a bit bigger than that, so 10 and a half, but also I've got very unusual feet, they're very wide. So, you know, shoes don't fit me generally, I have to go and try loads of them on. So you've got two pairs of shoes, soon to be three. Yeah, not including sandals and my one pair of trainers, but I don't ever wear those, so.
Speaker A:Evidently, yeah. Chris, I think I've only got one pair of shoes then. Right. If we're counting flip-flops out of this.
Speaker B:We are a shoe-poor group of men here. Chris?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, again, it depends what you define as a shoe, but I've got for footwear, I've got a lot of footwear for all sorts of different activities, hiking, running, playing various sports and doing various, yes, different physical activities. But in terms of posh shoes, I think I've got two pairs of shoes.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've got one. I suspect we're unusually low on shoes as a group.
Speaker A:I think we are. So what does that tell you about us then? So if you capture it all.
Speaker B: is Gillath and Barnes et al.: Speaker A:Okay, so let's bring it back down. So what can one tell about us then who don't own many shoes and just got one or two pairs knocking around between us?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, maybe we're not planning to signal too much that we want.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the point, isn't it?
Speaker B:That we're signalling through lack of signalling. Am I right? Right. But this is indeed one of the things that they were looking at. So if, for example, people who are very open tended to have bright, colourful shoes, and openness is, you know, the sort of openness to experience your preference for variety and so on. People who are, I suppose the interesting things are emotional stability, which was negatively correlated with pointy toes and high heels. If you have casual and comfortable shoes, you're more likely to be emotionally stable. So, you know, which I think if our shoes are like mine and kind of a bit not terribly well kept and just chosen for comfort rather than flashiness, then it probably means we're emotionally stable.
Speaker C:I think there's meta signalling going on as well, because the shoe fashions obviously evolve, you know, it's a dynamic. So pointy shoes may be fashionable at one stage and not fashionable, you know, strange at another stage in time. But I think there's a type of person who wears a fashionable shoe, whatever that might be.
Speaker B:But that's that. Don't worry, they've got that covered, right? And they found that basically having stylish shoes and that were neat and clean and well kept was associated significantly with attachment anxiety. So basically, if you want to be liked by people, the extent to which you care about being liked by people will predict the fashionableness of your shoe. So if we, as I think we probably do, don't have particularly fashionable shoes, it shows that we have low attachment anxiety. So in other words, we don't particularly care what other people think. Now, that is what we are based as people would say, but people, people, the mindset people do pick up on that. So even though, I mean, the point is, people, we are really good at using information about people's shoes, which shows that, you know, we are very good actually at making snap judgments and using information really effectively.
Speaker C:See, I think there's something about shoes uniquely that is quite good for signaling information because it's not at eye level. So you can surreptitiously check somebody out and gain this information without it being obvious, like without you sort of, you know, eyeing their jewellery or something
Speaker B:Yeah, you can hide under the table, check out which people you want to talk to and then pop up at the appropriate spot. Yeah, that wouldn't be strange at all.
Speaker C:But there's clearly, I mean, there's clearly something about shoes, which have always been used as a social indicator, you know, the fact that being unshod was a clear sign of, you know, poverty generations previous. And, you know, so my grandparents were always concerned about, you know, whether or not I was wearing shoes because they felt it might indicate that we couldn't afford shoes if I didn't have them on my feet. And, you know, if you look at the ultimate sort of extravagance, you know, if you think about cases like Imelda Marcos and how that captured everybody's imagination, the fact that she had so many shoes, she couldn't possibly have worn them, you know, all that signalling on that level where there's something about a shoe, which is a very utilitarian piece of clothing that, you know, makes it sort of all the more powerful. If you're prepared to wear particularly uncomfortable, you know, Manolo Blahnik or something, that tells you something about your willingness.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I mean, so what that shows is that if you give people a space in which to signal, they'll work out how to signal with it. You know, that's the point that shoes, as I said, they do because of the potential variety that you get in shoes have a very high potential for being used as signals. Yeah, so I mean, I think things like, you know, so if we, in order to, so, you know, I was mentioning there are signals that we want to send because we want them to be received accurately. And so there are things like, I mean, the state of repair of your shoes and how expensive they are is negatively related to political ideology, for example. So liberals, at least I have to say, all of this is prefaced with in their study group, which was generally people in their early 20s who were college students. So you can predict, you know, how left wing someone is. Now people might want, that might be something that people want to communicate. That's fine. Maybe you want to find other lefties or other conservatives, but there are other things. So, you know, where something like price where you want to, you might, people who are rich want to signal that they're rich because it makes you high status. That's now the point is that's hard to replicate. So signals in order to do that job of effectively keeping out the riffraff, they have to be hard to replicate. And basically the fact that you can have a very high price range in shoes, you can have shoes that are ridiculously expensive and shoes that are really cheap means that that then gives you the capability to signal. It's harder to do that with something like a tie because it's very, it's very hard to get. I mean, it's very hard to spot an incredibly expensive tie.
Speaker A:But also it's one of the things that Chris is saying is that shoes are, you know, one of the ultimate things in utility. Pretty much everyone's got to have a shoe, but at the same time, there's a huge variety and all sorts of price ranges and styles. So it offers both. It's really, it's very common. It's everywhere, but with lots of variety as well.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, like Nick, you were saying about, you know, it's giving people this space to signal and, you know, some places where you think, okay, no, that shoe really is utilitarian. You know, you look at Wellington Boots now and, you know, the fact that they have become a fashionable item and one which there is a large price differential in. If you look at, you know, what happened to sneakers in the US and the designer Tinker Hatfield and the Air Jordans, those of you are old enough to remember them, and how the price that they fetched and that they were even, people were even murdered over these shoes. They were considered such high status items. And, you know, there's something that principally is about stopping you from spraining your ankle and slipping over. And yet, you know, becomes this highly desirable item.
Speaker B:I think that's a. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you could say that having a social uniform, you know, I would guess that 100 years ago, all middle class people would have very, very similar shoes. Now, if you go to the average office, you might find a mix of different colours, different shapes, you know, might find some people wearing trainers and all. And people have the ability to signal far more now. So perhaps, you know, perhaps the amount you can tell about someone's shoes has actually has increased significantly.
Speaker C:Which begs the question, where are shoes going, you know, in the future?
Speaker A:Well, that's a good point, actually, because we're close to sort of going in the direction of wrapping up. And so that's a good question to pose. So yeah, exactly what Chris said. Where are we going with shoes? What's the future of shoes? What's the.
Speaker C:Well, one of the one of the things that's being developed or, in fact, being developed, I don't know if you remember the Back to the Future Michael J. Fox self fastening trainers, that technology is now has been developed and is being refined. But again, you know, I mean, obviously, the usefulness of not having to fasten your own shoelaces is relatively limited, even accepting for, you know, being able to dynamically tighten when you're doing different.
Speaker B:But also, you can see that that actually the ability to tie your shoelaces is a useful signal, right? So if you have shoelaces, it at least says that you have the whatever modicum of ability is required to do that. And it's a bit like being able to tie a tie or something. If you can't do it, I think people would, you know, draw perhaps quite rightly certain conclusions about.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, is it is a classic sort of term of abuse of low intellect, isn't it, that they couldn't even fasten their own shoelaces?
Speaker B:Exactly. So so so there is always there's going to be a just if shoes give you the ability to do something complex to signal signal some kind of intellectual ability, people will want to exploit that. So I so I can see that this this this, you know, even if they're massively convenient, I mean, but why haven't Velcro shoes taken off as as smart shoes, you know, and I think that's going to be a large part of it because because you probably look like you can't tie your shoes if you the only the only technology I want out of shoes is to get the bloody things to fit properly. And thankfully, the idea of 3D scanning and possibly, you know, 3D printing shoes. That'd be that'd be great because I go through hell. This is one of the reasons I've only got two pairs of shoes. My feet are really wide. And this means that whenever I have a pair of shoes, it takes weeks of, you know, compede plasters and hobbling about before I can actually function properly.
Speaker A:Well, now you're talking because I have my feet are relatively normal, except I think one's bigger than the other, which, of course, is normal for lots of people. But each one seemed to sit on a slightly different shoe size. And so I have all sorts of problems with my right foot. And so this sort of technology, unless I sort of transform into Prince Charles tomorrow and get my shoes made handmade for me, this sort of technology would be really handy if it can be affordable as well.
Speaker C:So because it is still amazing to me that there are people who really struggle to find shoes that fit them when you when you know you do. I mean, obviously, they treat a foot like a like a rectangle to all intents and purposes, which is, you know, if you if you have a particularly oddly shaped foot, then that's not going to fit in the in the rectangle. But yes, the the promise of bespoke shoes for low cost could could be quite transformative for the the ugly sisters of this world.
Speaker B:I mean, shoes are a big deal in folklore, aren't they? Yeah, obviously, shoes loom large in people's people's minds as a thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, yes, the Cinderella story and the old woman in the shoe, Jason and his and his
Speaker A:missing sandal and you got little pixies, little elves used to go off each night and make the shelves in the shoemaker. Yeah. What's the deal with shoes? I don't know. Puss in boots. Puss in boots. I'm sure there are many more. Okay, before we sign off, could we take given what we've been talking about shoes, by the way, that was one of my favorite podcasts we've ever done. And I want to get I want to find out more from you, Nick, about that bit of research because that sounds fascinating.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, the authors are quite open about the fact that this is, you know, still quite limited. They hypothesize that the the actually most of what we're able to tell from shoes comes from being able to tell things like gender and age and income. So they think that probably the other things are explained by that. So, for example, feminine shoes are rated as being associated with more agreeableness and agreeableness is basically about being nice, being kind and empathetic and stuff. And they hypothesize that that's because women are generally more agreeable than men. And that's just a well-established correlation. So, you know, more research is needed to find out what we're really learning from people's shoes. Of course, like everything, as soon as these things get found out, say, for example, the correlation between comfortable looking shoes and low attachment anxiety, for example, which apparently is one of the few things that people didn't pick up on, even though they said that just by looking at the shoes, they were able to find these correlations. And people more or less used them all except for a couple of them. But, of course, as soon as people, you know, have the keys, they'll start exploiting it. You know, that's the problem we'll see if we learn. Well, if I want to look clever, then I need to get red shoes with, you know, brown laces. Then, you know, we'll all be doing it and the value of the signal will be lost. But that's why these things evolve. So yeah, but there'll be a new evolution.
Speaker A:Yeah. So let's just finish off. Let's describe each other's shoes. Chris, tell me about Nick's footwear.
Speaker C:He has none. So he's barefooted.
Speaker A:He's gone for the caveman look. Yes, he has. He's signaling something.
Speaker B:I mean, we're in my house. So just to make it clear for listeners that I haven't traipsed across town with no shoes on. My actual, my shoes of preference are some black suede boots. You beat Nick, you. And tell me about Chris's. He's got, what do you call those, deck shoes or something? Yeah, they look like sailing shoes or something. So they're kind of, he's from the South Coast and these shoes are exactly what you'd expect a middle-class person in the South Coast to be wearing. They're kind of blue, blue plimsolls with white, you know, white laces and white trim. Yeah. I'm happy to fit a stereotype. Yeah, he looks exactly like a stereotype of someone you'd see hanging about in a boating shop.
Speaker A:Yeah. And, or a maximum security prison. You're not allowed shoes with laces on in those places. Ah, too true. What about me? Scuzzy red flip-flops. Looked like you bought them for a pound at Asda. Yeah, I actually had to buy them in Amsterdam. And in fact, they say Amsterdam all over them. And it's because I was in Amsterdam and I was on business there. And so foolishly had not taken flip-flops with me. And I hate wearing shoes. And so whenever I have to wear proper shoes, I just feel very claustrophobic. And I was over there and I desperately needed some. I bought them. They cost about five quid or something. But it's like, they're like walking on a tiny, tiny, really thin bit of foam. And indeed, that's what they are. And so you feel every single pebble underneath them. The princess and the flip-flop. There we go. But all I will say, they're perfect for a little bit of podcast recording. Okay, gentlemen, thank you very much. I've very much enjoyed that. I'm Fraser McGruer. We've been here with Chris Wragg and Nick Hare of Aleph Insights. Thank you for listening. And until next time, goodbye. Bye-bye.
