Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
In a world were everything is available on demand, will we miss out on the pleasure of nostalgia? What Is Nostalgia Good For? Quite a Bit, Research Shows http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/science/what-is-nostalgia-good-for-quite-a-bit-research-shows.html?pagewanted=all
Why the Past Always Seems Happier Than the Present https://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-markman-phd/past-less-intense-than-present_b_987726.html
For more information on Aleph Insights visit our website https://alephinsights.com or to get in touch about our podcast email podcast@alephinsights.com
Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering Podcast produced by TellMeStudios for Aleph Insights. In this series of podcasts, we take a look at interesting topics and discuss what we think they tell us about analysis and decision-making. I'm Fraser McGruer and I'm here with Peter Coghill and Nick Hare of Aleph Insights and this week we're discussing how, because of the internet, nostalgia isn't what it used to be. Nick, go for it.
Speaker B: es. It was a cartoon from the: Speaker A:Okay, I'm not sure. I think there's a lot of things you said that I'm not quite sure I agree with the premise. But I think one thing that's interesting is in true Aleph style, I think what's interesting is, which is that Borges story with the is it the the library of Babel? Yeah, so the library of Babel. It's not so much an issue. I think there's a sort of an access issue here. So there could be lots of stuff being stored all the time, but how the hell do you access it in the future? Anyway, before we go down that avenue, Peter, anything to add to what Peter said so far about about the general state of what he's just described? And actually, do you agree with everything he said?
Speaker C: cat stuck up tree incident in: Speaker A:And so you will be able to find a podcast reference to it.
Speaker C: ere's quite a lot from around: Speaker B:I mean, I think because I think we have talked about this issue of how we are going to store electronic information and you know, to preserve it before. But I think for me, it's this is a sort of more of the emotional question really about that connection to the past and the losing touch with the past, which I feel is some something quite important about doing that in a way that we're almost living in this eternal present, you know, where everything is there all the time. You know, it's in the old days, if you watched a TV program, you might not ever see it again. Now it's always on watch again, or you can find it on YouTube. You know, there's no such thing as there's a line in that Lemonhead song at the outdoor site where he says, what it you know, I can't go with you on a rock climbing weekend. What if something's on TV and it's never shown again? Well, that doesn't exist anymore. And I think that's sad. But anyway, I sort of made me think about nostalgia and the purpose of nostalgia. I struggle to think of a kind of evolutionary reason for it. I wonder if it's a side effect of the way that our memories are encoded. Because we know that.
Speaker A:Is it? I mean, it's, yeah. I think this is about emotion, isn't it?
Speaker B: e. It was first identified in: Speaker C:Yeah, it's been a long time intruders mental illness. Yeah, I think there is a good evolutionary purpose for it. Because if you're not on a quite a small scale, if you're, if as a nomadic race, when you're trooping around looking for berries and things, if you find yourself in an environment where you're colder, or less or more hungry, or your your memory of previous places where you've been warm and well fed will make you seek those places out again. So you will have a positive effect on your chance of survival as an individual.
Speaker B:Yeah, so it's kind of connected to a motivation to improve things to be like a time when they were better.
Speaker C:Yes, yeah. Or to and maybe the sort of the nostalgic effect where that you have a rose tinted view of the past drives you towards ever more action, rather than just being satisfied with the amount of food and the amount of heat you've got. It causes you to think, Oh, it used to be better than this. I'll go and find more heat, more foods, it drives you towards survival, improving action.
Speaker A:I think you're on something because there are all sorts of things we can be nostalgic about. But certainly one of them that's I guess, because I think, you know, television is quite a powerful medium, because of its visual and aural stimulation. And so hence, that's why that's one of the things we get nostalgic about. Because it's so emotive. But I think you might be on something that that's something that future generations are going to lose. They can still be a nostalgic about other stuff, but maybe not so much with TV programs. But I mean, I remember being at university. And I don't know why, but for some reason, we had a night of watching videos, actual videos, VCRs. Yeah, yeah. Of of kids TV programs. Yeah. And I remember seeing Bagpuss. And that in itself is just quite a nostalgic program. Oh, Goosebumps. And I remember that coming up and I hadn't seen it in, so I was 18. So I hadn't seen it in, let's say, 12 years or something. And I was very emotional. It really caught me. But now you can go, as we've discussed, you know, you can just go on YouTube and watch every episode of it. And you know, or any of anything was a few years ago. So I agree that and I think there's something lost there. That sort of I think there's a kind of, as we've described, it's not just a pure sadness. It's a sweet sadness. And I think there's, I think, generations now onwards, we'll lose on that and potentially be less complex people for it.
Speaker C:Maybe, I think it might be replaced by a similar form. So you have positive memories of watching Bagpuss as a child for whatever reason. But think about all the people who are really excited about the, any TV show that you watch that's current, that's contemporary, has a release schedule. And if it's that exciting, then you'll be talking to your friends about it. So you'll have a nostalgia about the social timeliness of these releases. So take Breaking Bad, you know, I watched Breaking Bad several years after it came out on Netflix, on demand, easy, I can just get it. But I missed out on the wait, the anticipation and the going to work and talking about it with people who've been watching it. They will be nostalgic about that. I've missed out on the opportunity. So the nostalgia, the opportunity for nostalgia around media is still there.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a good point, actually. I mean, I've never, I've never not been able to watch, you know, films from the 90s, say Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, you know, Goodfellas, a lot of those sorts of, you know, big, big films from the 90s. I, you know, I've lived through a time where I've always been able to watch them on on video or DVD, or on the internet. But I still get a bit nostalgic about it. And I think about it when I look back, you know, at the way that those films looked and actually how they've gradually aged. And those films are now looking kind of old fashioned, you know, the things that people thought were cool looking.
Speaker A:Which films are we at? Pulp Fiction?
Speaker B:Oh, I just randomly picked on a few things. But it's a similar thing. I mean, if you look at, I was watching news reports, I can't remember why I was looking at some of something that happened 20 years ago. And that everyone the way everyone was dressed in the late 90s. It looks like they look they look like, you know, poverty stricken serfs from, from some East European no hover boots. I mean, well, but it is funny how how you do even even actually having that media available does not actually necessarily lessen the distance you experience by looking at it in a way it reinforces it. You know, you look at old photos of yourself and think, you know, blimey, I used to have more hair or whatever. Or some hair. Or less, there used to be less me. Yeah, there was less me and more hair.
Speaker A:Okay, so look, where are we going with this? I've kind of lost track. What do we want to talk about? What direction do we want to go in?
Speaker B: rs, for a start, Blade Runner: Speaker A:Well, let's kind of pose that question in a slightly different way. We're sort of meandering towards some sort of conclusion. I don't know if we've already sort of discussed this a little bit. But what do you see yourself as being nostalgic about about 20 years from now in terms of being nostalgic about technology or entertainment? Is that a worthwhile question?
Speaker B:Because it's easy to I mean, I know, I'll be nostalgic about my life now. Yeah, of course, I'm going to be miss the fact that my kids are still quite little and haven't left home and all of that stuff. I'll be I'll be nostalgic about the stuff that was annoying. You know, I'll be nostalgic about that at some point. Like I'm nostalgic now about, you know, when I used to take my kids to nursery on the tube. And it was a real pain in the bum. But you know, I still kind of miss it now. That's easy. But I think your question is better. What what media, what things, what experiences are we going to look back on and think, Oh, I wish, you know, I wish I could have done that.
Speaker A:Oh, do you remember when I used to have to operate Netflix with my fingers?
Speaker B:I think it's that sort of thing. Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's take a guess. What's some of the stuff? Or like, do you remember when I used to have to when I used to have to talk to Alexa?
Speaker B:Instead of her just reading my mind? Yeah.
Speaker A:Is this a rubbish question or a good question?
Speaker B:No, I think it's good. I haven't sort of prepared an answer. But I think I wonder if it's because we're on the urge of it. We're on this knife edge. We're on the verge of being in a situation where actually we have almost totally lost control of our presence on the Internet. That, you know, we will almost not be able to not be fairly ubiquitous and have quite a large Internet footprint. And I wonder if we will look back on a time where, well, you know what, you could opt out, you know, you could opt out of the Internet of Things, you could opt out of social media. That for subsequent generations, that's not going to be possible because they'll be so locked into all the things that come with it. You know, things like being able, you know, if you want to order a pizza, you just sign in through Facebook. Yeah, and saying there's going to be no other option. I suspect that seems to me like something just like we sort of say, well, do you remember when you used to have to walk all the way to the telly to turn it on?
Speaker C: en a law was passed in around: Speaker B:Do you remember when you could put your foot down and break the speed limit? We can't do that anymore because the robot's doing it.
Speaker C:Yeah, we have to find other ways of being reckless. We can't do it in the cars anymore.
Speaker A: But also thinking back to: Speaker B:Pre YouTube, pre Facebook, pre Twitter.
Speaker A:Pre smartphone.
Speaker B:Pre smartphone. Was it even possible to be alive at that time? How did we manage?
Speaker A:I do often wonder what the hell we did pre-internet when we were working.
Speaker C:To bring it back to a bit of science, there's a lot of psychology that says you're much better remembering the really good things than the really bad emotional things. And you're extremely poor at remembering the trivia and niff-naff and annoying little things of life. And that's partly one of the drivers for the nostalgia is that you remember the good times and the bad times, but you don't remember having to catch the bus or the bus being late to get to the good time. You sort of filter all that day-to-day stuff out.
Speaker B:And actually, now you said that, and those things can provoke because they get forgotten so easily. I think when you suddenly encounter, so things like, just plucking an example out of nowhere, going to the London Transport Museum and seeing a train carriage on there, which is, you know, a tube carriage, which was one of the ones that I used to travel on when I was a kid. And, you know, say one of the ones which has the wooden slats on the floor, almost Edwardian. Yeah, but there was a sort of Edwardian feel to some of those carriages. They were sort of wooden and looking and, you know, really totally forgotten about until you're suddenly face-to-face with it. And you think, God, I used to see these every day, and I haven't seen one for 30 years. And then it all comes flooding back.
Speaker C:I get that whenever I come here for the podcast recordings. I come up from Moorgate up to Haringey, and the train I get on is a really old, heavy, rolling stock, clunking, passenger train. Quite different to the ones in the south-east, which are much more modern. They're only 10 years old, sort of lightweight, aluminium chassis, more modern commuter train. So, day-to-day, the trains I get in Welling are trains. That's what a train looks like to me now. But then when I get on this old, heavy, rolling stock, that's like the train I used to take to London with my parents when we came on the day trip. So, I get a sort of twang of nostalgia there, because it's like, oh, this is like this nice old train I used to get.
Speaker A: years, that's: Speaker B: year or two ago, I think, or: Speaker A: remember I moved to Poland in: Speaker B:Have you almost finished the crossword?
Speaker A:Yeah, not quite. It's, you know, they're tricky ones. They take a while. Okay, look, we're going to have to stop there. Peter, you look like you might want to say something.
Speaker C:If you do, please make it quick. Well, it won't be quick. Maybe we should leave it for another podcast. But there's lots of really interesting psychology around how nostalgia kind of works and how it relates to the imperfect nature of memory. Just to cite a couple that I think is quite, just to cite one, which I think is particularly relevant to the way that the business that we do, the analysis and the uncertainty world that we frequent, that when you look back at past events, you know how they turned out, right? So you know, you know, you know what happened. You know, you know, the logical path that the cause and effect that caused that thing to come about. Whereas when you think ahead or thinking about the present, uncertainty is inherently stressful, it's cognitively demanding and difficult to deal with. So that's potentially why you look back on memories, and you remember the outcome, you've got this nice narrative, consistent narrative explains why it happened. So it's just easier, a nice memory to play with, rather than a present day, complicated problem that you're dealing with.
Speaker A:I like that. We're talking about story here and the attraction of it.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I don't mind when I think back to while I was doing my degree and getting my results. You know, I remember that that day when I was getting my results was the most stressful day of my life. Now, they turned out to be okay. So, you know, but had it not been the result I wanted, I would look back on that with horror, instead of with, you know, pleasure. Now, when I look back on that morning, when I was sitting there, stressed out of my mind for two hours, waiting for the results to come simply because I know how the story ended.
Speaker A:Well, we'll just say that we have different stories to tell from that day. We'll stop there. Thank you very much for listening. I'm Fraser McGruer, we've been here with Peter Coghill and Nick Hare of Aleph Insights. Thank you and until next time, goodbye.
