Lost Media
The missing link: why are we fascinated by lost media? From Celebrity Number Six to the original Backrooms photo, Love's Labours Won to absent Doctor Who episodes: what is it about lost media that intrigues and inspires us? In this podcast, we discuss the neurological itch that solving such mysteries can scratch, and how any media - in the age of the internet - is at risk of vanishing. A few things we mentioned in this podcast:
- Reddit: Celebrity Six https://www.reddit.com/r/CelebrityNumberSix/comments/1dr71l4/celebrity_six_mega_post/
- Information about the finding of Celebrity Number Six https://www.reddit.com/r/CelebrityNumberSix/comments/1fc1rci/information_about_the_finding_of_celebrity_number/
- The location of the Backrooms photo https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5rA1PseLZozA6oUYjdVN6Rn8GNdEVY7bTXV4SmVp7E/edit#
- The Lost Media Wiki https://lostmediawiki.com/Home
- Kidd and Hayden (2015), The Psychology and Neuroscience of Curiosity https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4635443/ For more information on
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the Cognitive Engineering podcast produced by me, Fraser McGrew, for Aleph.
Speaker A:In this series of podcasts, we take a look at interesting topics and discuss what we think.
Speaker A:They tell us about analysis and decision making.
Speaker A:I am here with Peter Coghill and Nick Hett of Aleph, and this week we're discussing two breakthroughs in the search for lost media.
Speaker A:Nick, lead us in.
Speaker B:Yeah, so in.
Speaker B:So the two I want to talk about are Celebrity number Six and the.
Speaker B:The backrooms photograph.
Speaker B:Now, you don't know anything about any of these because you're a rural dweller.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you don't look at the Internet or anything like that.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:And it has lots of kind of.
Speaker B:It's a kind of screen printed fabric of celebrities.
Speaker B:Eight celebrities, in fact, repeated in a pattern.
Speaker B: who were relatively famous in: Speaker B:Orlando Bloom is about the only one I've heard of.
Speaker A:So who was this bloke who discovered this?
Speaker B:He was just a Reddit user, had this fabric and he posted it and said, who are these people?
Speaker B:And not only were their identities established, but the source photographs crucially were found.
Speaker B:So everyone found the photographs that had been used by the original artist to.
Speaker C:Create this fabulous sort of Andy Warhol esque kind of block pattern.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kind of posterized.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:Looking.
Speaker A:Oh, I've got it in front of me.
Speaker B:But it was very clear when the.
Speaker B:It's very clear from the original photo which photo it was, you know, so when you found the right photo, when they found the photo of, you know, of Orlando Bloom, it was obviously that photo that they guy had used.
Speaker B:Number six.
Speaker B:Celebrity number six was complete mystery and not even the gender was agreed on.
Speaker B:And so obviously I was really intrigued by this and followed that.
Speaker B:There was a whole Reddit subreddit called Celebrity number six.
Speaker B:And every day or two, someone would chip in with a new suggestion.
Speaker B:Is it this person?
Speaker B:And they'd have some photos which looked almost like the thing.
Speaker B:And people would go, oh, this is.
Speaker B:Could be her.
Speaker D:And it was never quite right.
Speaker B:And then literally a couple of months ago, someone put the photo, sorry, the picture from the fabric, into Pim Eyes, which is a reverse image search.
Speaker B:And actually pretty sophisticated sort of reverse people search thing.
Speaker B:And it identified the model as Leticia Sada, who is a Spanish model, pretty obscure, now retired.
Speaker B:And so thinking this could be the one.
Speaker B:Now, the original photo was still not found, but.
Speaker B:But they contacted her photographer and said, did you know that, you know, there's this massive hunt on for this person?
Speaker B:And they dug out the original photo and of course, the minute you see it, it's obvious, it's obvious that that's the source photo.
Speaker B:And celebrity number six was solved.
Speaker B:So interesting feature, the photo was not on the Internet.
Speaker B:It was in hard copy.
Speaker B:So that's quite fun.
Speaker B:Now that was hot on the heels of the discovery of the original backrooms photograph, an equally mysterious mystery.
Speaker B: Okay, so in: Speaker B:Someone posted this quite creepy picture of a kind of windowless, what looks like an underground room with yellow wallpaper and sort of depressing lighting and all with this kind of yellow glow.
Speaker B:And they had this.
Speaker B:Someone then appended a little story to it and it said, if you're not careful and you no CL out of reality in the wrong areas, you'll end up in the backrooms where it's nothing but the stink of old moist carpet, the madness of mono yellow, the endless background noise of fluorescent lights at maximum hum buzz and approximately 600 million square miles of randomly segmented empty rooms to be trapped in.
Speaker B:The idea being that you could fall through a gap in reality and find yourself here.
Speaker B:This struck a massive chord and it is really quite an exciting idea.
Speaker B:And so people developed a whole lore about what the backrooms.
Speaker B:People have made videos set in the back rooms.
Speaker B:There are computer games about the backrooms.
Speaker B:But of course the big mystery was where had this photo come from?
Speaker B:No one.
Speaker B:It was no one.
Speaker B:4Chan is anonymous.
Speaker B:So you got no idea who posted the thing and, and the original, whoever found the original photo never sort of reappeared to say this is where it's from.
Speaker B:And so there was a hunt for again about five years until eventually somebody stumbled upon it.
Speaker B:They didn't find it using sophisticated techniques they were searching for in furniture stores, I think for, you know, potential photos that could be of the same location.
Speaker B: , which had been renovated in: Speaker B:Well, I mean, I was so overjoyed.
Speaker B:I think for me, more so than with the celebrity number six, because it was more unthinkable that this could ever be solved.
Speaker B:So those, those are really two, like very enduring mysteries that have been solved, but to which we can add a bunch of other famous sort of lost media for which people are still searching, which may or may not be out there.
Speaker B:London After Midnight, a silent horror film starring Lon Chaney.
Speaker B: n were destroyed in a fire in: Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B: The Day the Clown Cried,: Speaker B:Apparently it was upset about a clown in a Nazi concentration camp, which might tell you why they shelved it.
Speaker B:The missing episodes of Doctor who.
Speaker B:90 Episodes of Doctor who were destroyed by the BBC along with loads of other stuff.
Speaker B:And, and so obviously people, they destroy.
Speaker C:Stuff on a daily basis.
Speaker D:Yeah, well, they.
Speaker B:In their culture.
Speaker B:Yeah,.
Speaker D:But they, I think they occasionally.
Speaker B:Like someone found some in a, in a, in a shop in, in Tunisia or something.
Speaker D:I mean they occasionally like people have.
Speaker B:Found one or two.
Speaker B:Shakespeare's Love Labours.
Speaker B:One, of course, kind of is.
Speaker B:It did ever exist, but it was talked about, but nobody knows where that is, so.
Speaker B:And various other things.
Speaker B:Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, Disney, Disney cartoon, which the, which was some of the earliest shorts have now disappeared.
Speaker B:So Alfred Hitchcock's second film, the Mountain Eagle.
Speaker B:And going back a little bit further, the Gospels of Jesus, his Wife.
Speaker B:So, well, there we are, lost media, lots of it.
Speaker B:And I love it.
Speaker A:So that's my question.
Speaker A:You love it.
Speaker A:Why do you love.
Speaker A:You feel, you know, more immersed in this than I am.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Why do you love it?
Speaker C:I might be able to help answer.
Speaker B:Yeah, go for it.
Speaker C:So I've got some factors which cause the lost media phenomena to sort of come about and I'm concentrating on the lost media of terms of like the celebrity number six in the backrooms.
Speaker C:Photo of somebody finds something somewhere on the Internet and goes, this is odd.
Speaker C:Where did it come from?
Speaker C:And then the whole sort of the puzzle solving thing that occurs thereafter, I'm not so much concerned with like stuff that's been like a tv, like the Doctor who's that sort of lost and deleted.
Speaker D:So things that were on the Internet.
Speaker B:At some point but aren't, but I think it's.
Speaker C:I think there are parallels with other things.
Speaker C:But so factors for lost media of this kind.
Speaker C:So number one, limited initial distribution.
Speaker C:So things like pamphlets and leaflets maybe have a run of a few thousand or tens of thousands, but then stop.
Speaker C:The printed fabric, you know, had a limited run and then stopped.
Speaker C:That sort of seems to be.
Speaker C:And then sort of one time posting of a photo by somebody somewhere on some Reddit forum or something.
Speaker C:So limited distribution, technological obsolescence plays into it.
Speaker C:So formats that go out of, out of Sort of common, sort of.
Speaker C:You read it, you know, being able to read them easily, sometimes they're rediscovered and people find a photo on it and go, that where's this photo from?
Speaker C:And post it up again.
Speaker C:Lack of preservation efforts.
Speaker C:So there's no.
Speaker C:There's no curation of these assets.
Speaker C:There's no definitive sort of copy in the British Library of this thing.
Speaker D:Thank God for the Internet Archive.
Speaker C:Thank God for the Internet Archive, yeah.
Speaker C:So cultural significance and nostalgia.
Speaker C:Often they.
Speaker C:Some of these things have like.
Speaker C:They hark back to a previous bygone era and make people think in a sort of nostalgic way.
Speaker C:Partial info and are called rumors.
Speaker C:Where you have like part of an image or a bad scan or a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy where you've lost fidelity.
Speaker C:You not only lose the provenance of a thing, but you also lose some of the resolution of it.
Speaker C:And that makes it more intriguing.
Speaker C:Copyright and legal issues.
Speaker C:Sometimes things just go dark.
Speaker C:So websites for movies and things that were then bought by Warner Brothers have just been shut down.
Speaker C:And there was media on there that's now sort of no longer accessible.
Speaker C:There's a whole thing called virality, but I think lots of these bring them cause the virality.
Speaker C:But strangest uniqueness or perceived value.
Speaker C:So things which are obviously kind of unique, like this dark rooms photo.
Speaker C:Nobody's ever quite seen anything quite like it before.
Speaker C:And it was strange.
Speaker C:It had this weird kind of liminal quality to the place that it was there.
Speaker C:And then finally I call it cultural piggybacking.
Speaker C:So the dark rooms photo is an unremarkable photo.
Speaker C:Had it not been for this, this sort of online cultural phenomenon called creepypasta, where it got sort of that the story that was appended to it that really gave it much of its gravitas was a creepypasta idea that then propelled this image into much more, much wide interest.
Speaker C:It became.
Speaker C:It memified it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So those are sort of some of the factors, I think.
Speaker C:And then there are some people.
Speaker C:There's another people factor, really, which is people's thrill and sense of adventure and solving these puzzles and having spare time to do it, I think are the kind of key factors in what makes this phenomena work.
Speaker A:Okay, so that's quite interesting.
Speaker A:And just to sort of summarize what you said, Scarcity, obsolescence of really the tech or way of keeping it.
Speaker A:No, no, not curated nostalgia.
Speaker A:Incompleteness, Governance, really.
Speaker A:Uniqueness, Memeification, memphication and people having spare time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I. I Think that's an awesome list.
Speaker B:And I have nothing to add to it, but an observation which is actually, even though Peter was sort of inspired by thinking about the Internet, that absolutely this same set of factors applies to, I think the other examples that we've talked about.
Speaker B:You know, certainly take the Shakespeare play, limited initial distribution.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, obviously things were not published in anything like the same volumes that they are today.
Speaker B:I mean, technological obsolescence to the extent, I suppose, that sort of books are obsolete.
Speaker B:But certainly Shakespeare was never around when the Internet was there, so it never found its way onto the Internet.
Speaker B:And, you know, lack of preservation efforts because, of course, Shakespeare wasn't famous enough at the time, I suppose, for people to go, well, we better hang on to this guy's stuff because they're really good.
Speaker B:And probably the distribution wasn't quite scarce enough for people to say, well, actually, you know, I've got a copy, but we can bin that because somebody else will have one.
Speaker B:So I think these are all factors that actually apply to any lost media.
Speaker B:But I think the really interesting, I suppose, alarming, depressing thing is that you would think the Internet would stop all this.
Speaker B:You would think the Internet would be the end of lost media.
Speaker B:You know, that.
Speaker B:That limited initial distribution.
Speaker B:Well, you know, you put it on the Internet, well, it's.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Everyone's.
Speaker B:Everyone in the world seen it and got a copy now, right?
Speaker B:No, because if a website goes down, all you've got is hyperlinks to that website.
Speaker B:Nobody might have taken a copy of it.
Speaker B:And technological obsolescence again.
Speaker B:I mean, like Flash games, Flash.
Speaker B:Flash is now no longer supported by most browsers.
Speaker B:And there was vast numbers of Flash games, which now are completely unplayable.
Speaker B:You have the lack of preservation efforts.
Speaker B:Really serious problem for the Internet.
Speaker B:The Wayback Machine, the Internet Archive is doing a great job, but they're hampered by law and resources, which is extraordinary.
Speaker B:I mean, you'd think this would be the sort of British Library, you know, the reserve library of the Internet.
Speaker B:But it's not.
Speaker B:It's, you know, privately funded, so.
Speaker B:So I think, you know, actually the Internet has not.
Speaker B:Has not solved these problems at all.
Speaker B:You know, if anything, it's made.
Speaker B:It's made these problems worse because it feels like they've been solved, you know, that you.
Speaker B:It feels like if you put something on the Internet, that's it is there forever.
Speaker B:But we probably lost more things since the Internet started than have ever been created.
Speaker A:Quite.
Speaker A:It feels a little bit like all that's changed is the same problems remain, the same factors remain.
Speaker A:It's just bigger, it's just scaled up.
Speaker A:It feels like the war on drugs, where you can go, at the border with Mexico, you go, look, isn't this fantastic?
Speaker A:This year we stopped a million tons of cocaine, as last year we only stopped 100 tons of cocaine.
Speaker A:And that might look good, but it's just that it means there's more of it coming through maybe.
Speaker A:Anyway, a question just, I want to try and nail down what we're trying to address here, which is, are we, are we just sort of examining this phenomenon of lost media?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which clearly we are, but also, where do we want to go with this?
Speaker A:Is it that we want to, we need to stamp this out, this lost media business?
Speaker A:Is it that?
Speaker A:What's the question?
Speaker A:Can you frame the question?
Speaker B:Well, I think, I mean, I, I enjoy, I enjoy lost media.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker B:But two things.
Speaker A:So would we want to stamp it out?
Speaker B:Well, exactly.
Speaker B:I mean, thank God humanity is not good enough to stamp it out.
Speaker B:And I mean, bear in mind that, you know, the search for, the search for the backrooms photo, found it online, you know, but all of the tools at our disposal could not be good old fashioned sleuthing.
Speaker B:You know, reverse image searching didn't work.
Speaker B:It just, you know, finding it was hard still.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I just had a quick look at sort of what is, what are the, what's the neurological basis for, for us being intrigued by those kinds of mysteries.
Speaker B:And I think obviously it's important that there is known to be a missing thing because, I mean, obviously we can say that, you know, there are, there must be millions of pieces of work and writing and paintings and things that have been lost over time.
Speaker B:What I think really sets your brain aflutter is when you know that there was a thing that existed, you know that, you know that, you know, there's this work by Shakespeare which, and therefore, you know, it could still be out there.
Speaker A:It's tantalizing.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, in terms of.
Speaker B:There's actually quite a lot of sort of bits of your brain which apparently are sort of potentially part of this feeling of kind of curiosity.
Speaker B:Your nucleus accumbens is apparently where you have eureka moments.
Speaker B:So when you, when.
Speaker B:So when you have that kind of sense of explanation being complete or some, some missing or confusing thing being explained, dopamine gets released into your nucleus accumbens.
Speaker B:And you, you love it.
Speaker A:I get that when I solve a particularly tricky equation.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, actually.
Speaker B:But you, I know you're not an equations man.
Speaker B:But you probably have a similar sensation when a.
Speaker B:You know, where perhaps Liebestod from, you know, the Wagner's Liebestod resolves or some other musical resolution.
Speaker B:It's the same kind of feeling.
Speaker B:Your anterior cingulate cortex apparently recognizes when there is something missing or unexplained and prompts you to try to resolve the problem.
Speaker B:You have your amygdala, which generates anxiety when there is uncertainty or ambiguity.
Speaker B:So there are lots of bits of the brain which apparently will sort of have.
Speaker B:Might potentially explain this sense of like, you know, really being driven to try and solve these mysteries.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:And I know there's a sort of well documented effect.
Speaker B:Everyone accepts this as a thing called the Zeigarnic effect, where if you have a task that isn't completed, it stays active in your brain somewhere.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:I think the first documented example was waiters would remember an open order, but as soon as they've delivered the order, they'd forget very quickly what head is for.
Speaker B:Yeah, same here.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I think from an evolutionary perspective, you've got this thing that, you know, what are the unexplained mysteries are both, you know, a threat in the sense that they could be a sign that something bad or dangerous is happening if something's missing or unexplained, but also an opportunity in the sense that if you solve an unexplained problem, you know, it might well give you some understanding about things or enable you to exploit some pattern in the world.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:So there we go.
Speaker B:I mean, I think I just.
Speaker B:That's sort of why.
Speaker B:Why we care.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For fundamental reasons.
Speaker B:That mysteries are just intrinsically exciting.
Speaker A:Yeah, It's.
Speaker A:We're talking about the human condition, Peter.
Speaker C:So I thought we could maybe finish off in this way.
Speaker C:So given.
Speaker C:Given that it's scratching a neurological itch.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker C:We probably.
Speaker C:We don't want it to go away.
Speaker C:It's a fun puzzle thing to do.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It enriches us.
Speaker C:Thinking about how the generation of lost media as a system.
Speaker C:And we talked about the factors earlier, those are kind of the inputs to this system.
Speaker C:I thought about what might cause it to dry up, what might kill lost media.
Speaker C:And I've got a few ideas here.
Speaker C:So a really boring one.
Speaker C:Well, mention it again.
Speaker C:But blockchain or some other similar technology, which means that everything is sort of automatically automagically curated.
Speaker C:So think photographs taken on digital cameras.
Speaker C:You know, we don't have analog cameras really anymore, but digital cameras, every photo was kind of watermarked with Some kind of signature which meant that in an impermeable way that meant that any image you received you could instantly trace back the provenance to a given camera in a given location owned by a certain person.
Speaker C:It would take away the mystery instantly.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, it wouldn't stop the photo.
Speaker D:Disappearing though, but it would give you.
Speaker D:It would be a lot easier to trace where it came from and find the source.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then another one.
Speaker C:There's two related ones really.
Speaker C:Like data storage cost trending to free.
Speaker C:There's just basically no.
Speaker C:There's just no need to delete anything.
Speaker C:Just you just keep amass an ever large enough number of storage media and this leg everything is going to be there somewhere.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That doesn't help you find it now does that?
Speaker C:We find it.
Speaker D:Makes it worse.
Speaker C:Makes it worse.
Speaker C:But it means that.
Speaker C:It means that it's not lost.
Speaker C:Lost is sort of inaccessibly lost.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:Do you remember when we did that podcast about what it means to lose something and we kind of decided that actually it wasn't either lost or not.
Speaker D:It was like whether or not the amount of time you're willing to spend.
Speaker B:Looking for it is.
Speaker D:Exceeds the value of what you're looking for.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then finally another boring one, which wouldn't be such a bad thing if it went away necessarily.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:Big language models could just have like an insta solve button.
Speaker D:You know, you could please Write Love Loves Labours 1.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Hey presto, out pops.
Speaker C:Well, I wouldn't necessarily need to generate it, but if it just had.
Speaker C:If it had.
Speaker C:If AI said ingested all media from everything and were able to provide the, the, the retrieval function.
Speaker D:Yeah, you wouldn't.
Speaker C:There wouldn't be a problem anymore.
Speaker D:No.
Speaker D:So if you get an AI that indexes the Internet.
Speaker C:Yeah, the entire Internet.
Speaker C:So because the lost rooms photo hadn't been lost because it was on the Wayback machine and had chat GPT11 indexed, all of that, it could just go.
Speaker C:There it is.
Speaker D:I mean.
Speaker D:Yeah, I have a feeling even then I sort of have this feeling that.
Speaker D:Well then you've just got the problem that the AI that's indexed it is now as complex as the thing it's indexing.
Speaker D:But yeah, I mean, I mean that sounds.
Speaker D:I do, I quite like the idea of AIs just making up lost media.
Speaker D:You know, I.
Speaker D:Because actually I think that would slightly scratch the itch for me.
Speaker D:You know, like if they get good enough to write Shakespeare, then you know, actually their best guess as to what Love's Labours 1 was about.
Speaker B:Might be.
Speaker D:Might be.
Speaker B:Certainly be better than my imagination.
Speaker C:It might be even better.
Speaker C:It might be more Shakespeare than Shakespeare.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Better than the original.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I do, I do.
Speaker B:I love the idea of, you know,.
Speaker D:Of being able to say, well, you know, show me Hitchcock's second lost, second film and having it generated, you know, it isn't obviously the same, but it's a fun idea.
Speaker C:Even in this dystopia where this doesn't, you know, this naturally occurring lost media doesn't occur anymore, I think it would still exist because I think there's a very healthy online community of Internet puzzles which are engineered and deliberately set by people for other people then to solve, which often branch out into the real world.
Speaker C:So you can think of it as extension of geocaches and things like that, where you're trying to find things partly online, partly in the real world, solving puzzles as you go along, and there's layers and layers and layers and layers and layers with dead ends, and eventually you find something which lets you know unambiguously that you've actually solved the puzzle.
Speaker C:I think lost media could be an Internet puzzle like that.
Speaker C:People could deliberately publish something and say, find out where this is.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:I feel like it's a little bit.
Speaker D:Of a depressing idea somehow.
Speaker D:It's like saying, look, we have to actually create mystery because we've banished it.
Speaker B:But actually the good thing is I'm not as optimistic as Peter about technological developments.
Speaker D:So I suspect we will never be free, I think.
Speaker C:But because this happens already, so I've seen, I think there's a Reddit, I don't know whether the channel is called, but where people post a random picture of some part of the world, often taken live by them on a camera and like it'd be some dirt road in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker C:And I say, where's this?
Speaker C:And then the competition is to try and identify, using Google Maps and other things where that was taken.
Speaker C:And some of these are solved within minutes.
Speaker C:And yet it's a totally obscure kind of middle of nowhere place with no distinguishing features.
Speaker C:A couple of trees and a track, and they'll nail it.
Speaker A:Yeah, you'd have to be careful if you've entered some sort of technology or protocol that helped you solve or prevent these lost media, because you might end up doing stuff like by accidentally obliterating Rubik's cubes or jigsaw puzzles that if you did it in one fell swoop and you go, oh, no, no, no, I wanted jigsaw puzzles, but they've gone, they've gone.
Speaker A:They've been solved.
Speaker B:Yeah, Imagine that.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, if suddenly, for some reason you deleted Rubik's Cubes and I could only read about them and think, well, I wonder what they were.
Speaker B:What were these wonderful inventions?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Because also it's interesting, by doing it, you're creating a new lost media thing as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't really know what he's talking about.
Speaker B:Humoring him.
Speaker C:I don't know how you delete a physical object.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:Let's wrap this up.
Speaker A:Maybe we'll ask a question.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But how do you want to wrap all this up?
Speaker A:But what's your conclusion and what we've just discussed?
Speaker B:What thing would you most like to find?
Speaker A:Okay, go for it.
Speaker B:So, well, it's very sad.
Speaker B:I'd like to find my daughter's bunny, Miffy, who she lost on the way to the park.
Speaker B:Not real bunny, it was a little stuffed bunny, but she.
Speaker B:She lost it on the way to the park when she was about three and is still sad about it.
Speaker B:She's now 13.
Speaker D:Good.
Speaker B:The good news came in the form of about six months ago, we were moving some shelves and we discovered Panda who had been missing since the lockdown.
Speaker B:Panda went missing during lockdown.
Speaker B:And we just thought, how do you lose?
Speaker B:How does a toy panda go missing when you're just stuck inside the whole time?
Speaker B:And yeah, so there was a dusty panda behind the bookshelves.
Speaker B:So, you know, that was good that was found.
Speaker B:But no, Miffy is definitely somewhere else.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In a better place, we hope maybe.
Speaker C:Peter, I'd quite like to find a shipwreck or a forgotten Egyptian tomb or something classically adventurous like that.
Speaker C:That sort of appeals to my sense of need for swashbuckling.
Speaker B:And is there any chance you could.
Speaker D:Find the wreck of MH370?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I would love to know where that is.
Speaker C:You'd love to be right about the report that you wrote on it.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, something like that.
Speaker C:Just no particular material gain.
Speaker C:Just like I found that thing.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's been lost for ages.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:The lost treasure of King John or something.
Speaker B:Isn't it in the wash?
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker B:Good old fashioned.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Discovery.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:For me it would be personal.
Speaker A:There's a couple of items of clothing that I've had that have gone, that I've lost.
Speaker C:I think Karina might have thrown them away.
Speaker A:She might well have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've got my suspicions.
Speaker A:They had a beautiful corduroy, light brown cartoon.
Speaker C:Oh, she's definitely throwing that piece.
Speaker A:Jacket.
Speaker A:Levi.
Speaker A:I was the bees knees in that.
Speaker A:But photos.
Speaker B:It would have gone well with the brown corduroy shirt.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I've got some brown.
Speaker A:I've got some corduroy trousers, like a treble corduroy photos.
Speaker A:Sometimes soft copy, sometimes hard copy, which I've just been a bit sort of.
Speaker A:What's the word?
Speaker B:Lax.
Speaker A:Lax with.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Which I'm very ashamed of as being a photographer.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, let's stop there.
Speaker A:Thank you, as always, for listening to the Cognitive Engineering podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Fraser McGrewer.
Speaker A:I've been here with Peter Coghill and Nick Hare of Aleff.
Speaker A:Until next time.
Speaker A:Goodbye.
